AN ODE TO DRE

Posted by: Steve Toll
08/13/12 11:59 am EST

Words don’t do justice when speaking about great players.  Andre Iguodala is a player who knows that as well as any.  He is going to be in the basketball Hall of Fame someday.  Basketball is about production and few players in NBA history have produced like Andre Iguodala through 8 seasons. 

Dre spent years here playing for fans who didn’t appreciate his on court ability and called him overpaid.  Nothing could be farther from the truth. 

Andre you were the most under appreciated player in franchise history.  You deserve to be mentioned with Chamberlain, Malone, Barkley, Dr. J and Iverson.  Unfortunately, you were stuck with teammates, haters, owners and front office guys who didn’t live up to their end of the bargain while you gave it your all for 8 seasons. 

The words don’t do you justice but the numbers certainly do.

 

Since Iguodala entered the NBA, he has been a top level player. Here are his total numbers compared to everyone else in the NBA, his block #’s are against all non PF-C:

 Second in minutes, 28th in points, 34th in rebounds, 15th in assists, 2nd in steals, 8th in blocks amongst non PF-C players

That’s a pretty good 8 years, but in case you’re not convinced, keep reading.

Below are Andre Iguodala’s career averages.  His numbers are compared to Scottie Pippen through 8 seasons and let’s remember that Scottie Pippen was named to the 50 greatest players of all time list.  It’s safe to say, he is a good comparison to Iguodala.  Pippen is an all time great defender and so is Iguodala, Pippen can be given an edge of defense but it’s a tiny edge at that.

Dre: 37.7 mpg, 15.3 pts TS% 55.4, 5.8 reb, 4.6 ast, 1.7 stl, .5 blk, 2.4 TOs, 2.1 Fouls

Pippen: 35.5 mpg, 17.5 pts TS% 53.8, 7.0 reb, 5.3 ast, 2.2 stl, 1 blk,  2.9 TOs, 3.1 Fouls

So Dre’s numbers are very close to Pippen and we all know Iguodala had a lot less to work with through the first 8 years.

Here’s the list of guys who put up Dre’s numbers or better, over the course of their career and they are all in the Hall of Fame: Jerry West, Clyde Drexler, Rick Barry, Walt Frazier, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Lebron James, Michael Jordan.  Except for some current players who might end with similar numbers, that is the whole list.

Let’s assume that Dre plays 75% of the minutes and is 60% as productive in the rest of his career as he has been the first 8 years combined. His total numbers would look something like this.  Total Production * .45 (.75*.6)

Career Numbers:  40628 Minutes, 13662 Points, 5210 Rebounds, 4337 Assists, 1560 Steals, 450 blocks

Kobe, Gary Payton, Pippen, Jason Kidd, Magic, Kevin Garnett, Jordan, Karl Malone and Cylde Drexler are the only guys with those career numbers

 or better.

Players like Lebron, Pierce, and Wade are current players who will likely achieve that combination of stats by the time their career is over.

Factoring in other guys production during Iguodala’s career, here are how his numbers would stack up all time

 40628 Minutes – 30th

 13662 Points – 170th

 5210 Rebounds – 220nd

 4337 Assists – 90th

 1560 Steals – 30th

 450 Blocks – 40th All Time amongst non Power Forwards and Centers

If Iguodala plays 80% of the minutes and is 75% as productive the rest of his career as he has through his first 8 seasons, here is the breakdown all time with adjustments for current players

41789 Minutes – 27th

 15075 Points – 130th

 5749 Rebounds – 155th

 4785 Assists – 70th

 1722 Steals – 20th

 496 Blocks – 35th All Time amongst non Power Forwards and Centers.

Those numbers put him in with Pippen, Kidd, Malone, Drexler, Kobe, Magic, and MJ when all is said and done. Players like Wade, Lebron, Pierce, Duncan, Garnett etc will also likely achieve these career numbers.

If Dre manages to be more that 80% as productive through the end of his career those numbers will only move up.  Yes, the scoring is inflated but it’s like his assists will improve and his defensive numbers will stay the same throughout the majority of the rest of his years.

Look at all that, factor in that Iguodala is an elite all time wing defender and you have yourself a guy who is a Hall of Fame player, anyway you slice it. 

Philadunkia nation, we hope you enjoyed Iguodala while he was here because he is one of the most unique and best players of all time.  There will be a time, it could be sooner rather than later, where everyone will miss Dre and learn to truly appreciate his unique on court ability.

 


 
 
 

37 Responses to “AN ODE TO DRE”

  1. GDG
    13. August 2012 at 13:04

    A Hall of Famer? Man you are delusional. I like Iguodala as a player but to mention him in the same breath as those guys is just embarassing.

    If you want to look at individual accolades, you’re talking about a player that’s been an all-star just once. A guy who has never averaged more than 19,9 ppg or 6,5 rbg.

    But aside from that, the Hall of Fame is about much more than stats, it’s about WINNING. Iguodala has only once led his team past the first round, and even then he needed a lot of luck (injuries to Rose and Noah). To put this on his supporting cast is missing the point entirely, because 1) great players lift their teams up and 2) Iguodala will NEVER be anything more than the THIRD best player on a championship calliber team.

    Iguodala is (was) a better than average player on a mediocre team, nothing more or less. That’s nothing to be embarassed about and I certainly appreciate what he has done for the Sixers, but to make him out to be a star is just idiotic and far beneath the standard I should expect from this site.

  2. Phil
    13. August 2012 at 13:51

    Of course he is a star. Just not a super-star. But he easily is a top 30 player in the NBA. You’re absolutely right about the HoF though…

  3. Steve Toll
    13. August 2012 at 13:59

    GDG
    Please explain how Iguodala’s numbers are so similar to Scottie Pippen through 8 seasons?

  4. brian
    13. August 2012 at 14:01

    good article.

    if dre can get on a championship team and maintain what he has done for another 6 or 7 seasons, he surely is a hall of a famer.

    being a jack of all trades can work when you do it super consistently.

    GDG you are not seeing the full picture with Dre.

  5. SFR
    13. August 2012 at 14:11

    At first I thought he was being sarcastic. I love Dre but thats rediculous. I’m still not sure he was serious.

  6. jajaka
    13. August 2012 at 15:15

    If dre wins a championship somewhere I would say it is possible for him to be in the HOF. You have to understand that Olympians, which he now is, have better chances for things like the HOF. Boy, that Denver team is going to be exciting. Its amazing how much the rest of the country appreciates and likes him and Philly people dont. If igoudala had a superstar next to him like Pippen philly fans would of appreciated him more. Still, great trade for sixers because true centers are rare (bynum).

  7. Frank T
    13. August 2012 at 15:51

    I agree he’ll be in the Bruce Bowen wing of the Hall of Fame – whenever they build it.

  8. are u kidding
    13. August 2012 at 15:56

    LOVE IGUODALA, and I think he was very under appreciated, but its a joke to say that he will be a HOF. also, how are his numbers very similar to Scottie’s?

  9. Vern L
    13. August 2012 at 15:59

    @ GDL
    But aside from that, the Hall of Fame is about much more than stats, it’s about WINNING.

    its not about winning. its a combination. If thats the case, U would pick Tyrone Lue over Iverson cause Lue has a ring. You would take Will Perdue over Charles Barkley, I can go on and on. I am a Sixer Fan First but I see players for what they are. Great Players. When Mike went out to play baseball. Scottie put up numbers but didnt win S@#t.
    So is Scottie not a great player.

  10. Vern L
    13. August 2012 at 16:00

    Oh Sorry Great Article Steve Toll

  11. YS
    13. August 2012 at 16:17

    I’d say he was trolling but he didn’t even use the HOF mention in the headline. Bath salts.

  12. RosstheBoss
    13. August 2012 at 16:56

    I can appreciate this article. It points to why good players often try and force their way to better teams, to gain the recognition they deserve.

    There is a reason why Andre Iguodala is continually on these Olympic and World Championship teams. He brings what we expect of all elite athletes when they arent focused on scoring 30 points in a game.

    If he continues out his career playing at this level, his medals should definitely suppliment the lack of titles and get him into the Hall of Fame.

  13. LarryM
    13. August 2012 at 17:20

    I’m a big AI fan but this is absurd.

    Come on, level with us – Toll can’t be a real person, but must be a belated April fools joke.

  14. Eric
    13. August 2012 at 17:50

    If you’re going to the trouble of poring over the stats to find out who Igoudala compares to, why not just post the numbers? You throw a list of names (Jerry West, Clyde Drexler, …) at us, and expect us to believe you because you’re Steve Toll? Just let us see the numbers, like you did with the Pippen example.

    And on Pippen, his numbers are complete career stats, which includes the later years of his career when his body started to go downhill (as typically happens). From 00-04, he averaged less than 12 points/game, and the rest of his stats trailed off similarly. Still, his career numbers are better than Igoudala’s (who is still in his prime) in nearly every category.

  15. hunter
    13. August 2012 at 18:31

    great article. i always loved dre and wish him best in denver. i always had fun watching him and appreciated what he did for the team unlike many others. i do like the trade, but it stinks his time in philly has come to an end. he always had a great attitude and played hard night in and night out, regardless of the lack of talent around him for many of the years.

  16. Kenny Wilson
    13. August 2012 at 19:15

    Thanks you Iggy. You were a stupendous payer and so unappreciated. I wish you much success. Please take it easy on my beloved Sixers.

  17. Matt Hater
    13. August 2012 at 19:46

    Wow, i couldn’t read past the first sentence. Ill play in the NBA before Andre Toomanydala makes the hall of fame. The guy got us out of the first round once and it was because D Rose tore his ACL. Andres own family probably dont think hes a hall of famer.

  18. BryanP
    13. August 2012 at 19:50

    This article is a joke. The guy has won one playoff series in 8 seasons because of fluke injuries to the other teams 2 best players. His numbers aren’t that similar to Pippen’s at all, not to mention that Pippen did that despite sharing the court with the best player of all time. And as a Sixers fan, I’m ashamed of you to mention those legends in the same sentence as Iggy.

  19. Anonymous
    13. August 2012 at 20:36

    its funny I’ve never heard future hall of famer when speaking about iggy. i wont agree or disagree. A one time all-star and not that much else to his name, yet. he did get jipped on slamdunk hardware but is he first ballot? no. eventually, maybe. if scottie pippen played on the cavs or even the sixers….its questionable he would’ve accumulated those statistics without a jordan by his side, let alone be considered a hall of famer. now who is to say if iggy slipped in the draft for whatever reason and fell to the lakers nextt o kobe. then i agree with this article. sometimes stats can be misleading. He filled the stat sheet, yes. was an amazing, athletic player with all the intangibles of a 2nd go to guy, absolutely. he was without a doubt my favorite player to watch on this team when iverson left. unfortunately thats how he was drafted, as a player to help allen iverson. its not his fault allen didn’t “practice” or train hard enough to actually create a winning team. he was drafted on to a team that was imploding ever since pat croce left and billy king was left in charge. ive been saying for years that iggy is a scottie pippen type and is absolutely undervalued. Iggy is an amazing player and under appreciated. now with getting the second pick in the draft and taking turner instead of cousins, we wouldnt be talking about this ode to dre. however, this team and organization made exactly the moves it had to make. We wouldnt be having this conversation if we let iggy go to another team to over pay him. we unfortunately paid him to be our star, our face of the franchise, our “Iverson”. a town like this wont have that. esp since we couldnt ever get out of the 1st round until recently, which iverson did with less players around him. I hate the bitterness that comes out of your words steve toll. be grateful that there’s actually a change for this team and for the fans. would we rather pay 16 million to a game changing center or 15 million for a game changing SMALL forward? ask anyone but yourself and they would do this trade 100 out a 100 times. quit being bitter about losing a POTENTIAL hof and consider the idea that we might have acquired a potential dominating force and easily a potential hall of famer. granted the team around him at the time, doesn’t he have 2 rings? if theres a more pessimistic blogger on this site….. give phil sheridan a call

  20. B-Real
    13. August 2012 at 20:42

    I love AI9, wish him nothing but the best. Sorry he wasn’t appreciated in Philly. But this is a city that no longers screams about Dr. J, but mentions Sir Charles in awe. AI9 biggest problem was he never played with a superstar player, after the trade of AI. While everyone wanted him to be the man, why not hate some of the players who have not worked on their game to take the next step. Holiday, Williams, Brand (injury), Turner (thought he would develop but didn’t happen yet). Pippen and Jordan were so great together (Jordan didn’t win without Scottie either) and the Scottie lead Bulls were cheated out of the Finals by a bad call in Game 5 (less than 2 seconds) thanks ref.

    Now if AI9 got to play with Bynum than we would take him more seriously. There is a reason Kobe wanted L.A. to trade for him 2 years ago.

    The more stars or better players he plays with the better his game becomes.

  21. Dave C
    14. August 2012 at 01:16

    Iggy pop (as me and my dad call him) will be missed. Sad to see him go, great player, good dude, all around cool guy. The thing that pisses me off, is that why the hate towards him? He was the franchise player, could block, steal, shoot 3′s, dunk, and give good ball pressure. I left out the free throws cause he did make me throw the remote at the wall quite a few times, but still! I think why the sixer fans gave him so much crap is cause they haven’t seen a championship since 83 and thought hey this guy is supposed to be the franchise player for 8 years, where’s the friggin parade at? Well that’s the thing, like you said earlier, Iggy is like a Pippen. Hall of Famer and all, but lets be real. If it was’nt for Jordan, Pippen wouldnt have all them rings. We just did’nt have that nucleus and team chemistry. Iggy also followed in the footsteps of another AI. But Philly, as much as I loved Iverson, he did’nt get us a ring either. They wanted him to be the next Iverson, and he wasnt. But hey, if Iggy could make the USA team, i’d want him on my team too. Before I end this, my all time favorite Iggy moment was Game 1 vs the Orlando Magic and he pulled up in Turgalus face and nailed the game winner after being down the entire game. I bet everybody in Philly loved him then.

  22. shabazz
    14. August 2012 at 04:55

    YOU SHOULD BE DRUG TESTED!!! if he gets in the HOF so will every1 who has ever been an all star. your lack of nba knowledge is laughable…he is an average guy who was only on the Olympic squad because d wade was injured and he still barely got any playing time

  23. GDG
    14. August 2012 at 06:09

    Steve
    You ask me to explain why Iguodala’s numbers are “so similar” to Pippen’s. Well, first of all Pippen’s numbers through 8 seasons are actually better in EVERY major statistical category:

    - Pippen 17.5 pts 7.0 reb 5.3 ast 2.2 stl 1.0 blk 49.0%
    - Iguodala 15.3 pts 5.8 reb 4.6 ast 1.7 stl 0.5 blk 46.1%

    And let’s not forget that Pippen got those numbers with the most dominant player ever on his team, while Iguodala has been “the man” for 6 of his 8 seasons. In the one season Pippen played without Mike during that period, he averaged 22.0/8.7/5.6/49%, was the All-Star Game MVP and finished third in MVP voting, and led his team to 55 wins. Iguodala has never come anywhere close to that level.

    What upset me the most about your article is that you put Iguodala in the same category as the legends of the game by making it look like only they have had the same averages as Iguodala. But here are the numbers through 8 seasons of the first 2 players I could think of from the top of my head, compared to Iguodala’s:

    - Iguodala 15.3 pts 5.8 reb 4.6 ast 1.7 stl 0.5 blk 46.1%
    - Marion 18.5 pts 10.0 reb 2.0 ast 1.9 stl 1.3 blk 47.8%
    - Kirilenko 12.5 pts 5.8 reb 2.8 ast 1.4 stl 2.2 blk 46.7%

    Very similar players, in that they can do a bit of everything. And certainly very good players (and this is where I admittedly was wrong, saying Iguodala is just better than average), but Hall of Famers? In my opinion, absolutely not, not unless they win MULTIPLE championships.
    Although Vern L is right when he says it’s a combination of things, their numbers alone don’t make these players Hall of Famers.

  24. hk
    14. August 2012 at 07:10

    When I think of players who put up 15.3 and 5.8, I think of them as being a few tiers below (and not “very close” to) players who put up 17.5 and 7.0. Put another way, in 6% fewer minutes per game, Pippen averaged 15% more PPG, 21% more RPG, 15% more APG, 30% more Steals per game and 100% more blocks per game (plus more TO’s and fouls per game, which is to Dre’s advantage). What that says to me is, if Pippen is the bar against which Dre is measured, Dre was a very nice player for the 76 and deserves to be recognized as such, but does not project to be in the HOF.

  25. Danny
    14. August 2012 at 09:19

    Good points about Iggy, I feel as though he has always been a Robin with no Batman (Iverson was too selfish to include Iggy as a youngster). He is an elite defender but no match for LeBron and that is who needs to be beat if Philly wants to win it all. The best way to defeat LeBron is to get big around the rim. Philly now has the biggest team in the NBA, depth up front, athletes on the perimeter, scorers off the bench, and a great coach. Folks in the media have missed the boat on this trade, Philly is an even bigger winner than LA. Andrew Bynum averaged 18 pts per game last year as an after thought on offense. He is far superior to D12 on offense and that will be proven this year when he becomes the focal point of Philly’s team. I can see 25pts and 12rbs easy. This guy is the biggest man in the NBA and he is just now filling out. Guys, Philly has just become the number one threat to Miami in the East, trust me on that! Iggy proves once again to be a team player as he is the reason Philly now has Bynum, a guy I would not trade for D12 straight up.

  26. Chris H.
    14. August 2012 at 10:00

    Wow Steve. I will first of all give you accolades for the tremendous time it took to compile those numbers. However, we all know that numbers can be skewed for whatever argument you want (but I’ll leave that alone).
    First of all, eventual HOF. Not that it is not in the realm of possibility YEARS after he is eligible, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
    Secondly, I can agree that he was underappreciated, but it’s not because of the reason I think that you believe. It wasn’t that he didn’t work hard and keep his mouth shut; it was because he wasn’t as good as people like you think. His defense is good to great, but I NEVER recall him shutting down Kobe, LeBron, Carmelo…you know, actual stars. I will give him Pierce this past playoff, but I think that when he is up against true superstars his defense isn’t exactly “shut-down”.
    Do we even need to talk about his offense? I looked at all those offensive stats you listed (Second in minutes, 28th in points, 34th in rebounds, 15th in assists, 2nd in steals, 8th in blocks) I thought I could cut him a little slack, even though I thought that those numbers weren’t great. But then you stated that were “amongst non PF-C players”. WHAT? So you’re saying that in 8 years, the supposed leader of the team, and only taking PG, SG and SF into the equation and his is still only 28th in points, 34th in steals…hell only 15th in assist? Are we supposed to salivate over those numbers when you take out centers and power forwards? Kudos to him in blocks and steals, but those are the only statistical numbers that can be appreciated.
    Listen, I am not a hater of Iggy, but my admiration ended about 3-4 years ago when I realized that this team was stuck in mediocrity. They had to blow things up and thank God the front office realized this. They were going nowhere with Elton, Lou, and (especially) Iggy. I ask you, if he is so great, then why does everyone (and not just fans) say that he would be a great #3 on other teams? He is like the smartest kid getting C’s among fellow students getting D’s and F’s. Of course he appears better, but is he really on par with an honors student?

  27. '83ers
    14. August 2012 at 11:32

    Comparisons with Pippen are really skewed. Bulls’ opponents had to concentrate so much on Jordan that Pippen had the opportunity to put up big numbers. At the same time, Iggy was really the only marquee player the Sixers had, so other teams gameplanned against him. If anything, this should tilt the comparison in Iggy’s favor, but that’s a tough call because of the synergistic effect two players can have on each others’ performance.

    Suffice it to say that I’ll miss Iggy. I appreciate what he brought to the team. Regardless, this was a trade that had to be made, especially if Bynum holds up physically and signs an extension.

  28. Steve Toll
    14. August 2012 at 12:10

    GDG,

    Marion and AK47 are going to be in the Hall of Fame with Iggy.

    Iguodala was a more efficient scorer than Marion. Iggy had a 2:1 Ast to turnover ration compared to 1:2 for Marion. Is it possible that Iggy would have scored more points playing 4 years with Steve Nash? Probably. Would he of had more assists playing with Nash, Amare and Joe Johnson? Probably Would he of had more rebounds playing PF more? Probably

    Also Iguodala fouled 300 less time and was a better defensive player.

    Kirilenko is the best Russian player of all time and one of the most unique players to play in the NBA. If he played in NY he would be a household name and a 8 time all star, instead he is unheralded by average fans. He left the NBA and proceeded to be the best player in Europe by a leap and bound last year. He is a defensive stud and very good offensive player.

  29. mar
    14. August 2012 at 18:45

    hahahahahahahahahahahahaha PLEASE STOP IT WITH THIS NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cant believe I just read this article!!! He’s not hall of fame worthy at all!!! The question should be is he worthy enough to have his jersey retired in Phily?? And the answer is NO NO NO….Wow this is nuts man…I really can’t believe this SMH!!!!!

  30. Steve Toll
    14. August 2012 at 19:12

    Chris H

    Only his blocks were against non PF-C,

    All his other stats are against the entire NBA since he joined the league

  31. JT's Hoops Blog
    15. August 2012 at 09:48

    I for one am glad that Dre is out of Philly. He was never that much of an impact player that people make him out to be. He’s certainly no All Star. His scoring average dropped three years straight and became less of a factor on the offensive end. That’s not a sign of an All Star, whom I believe should be a factor on both ends of the floor, not just defense. The Sixers needed him to be a scorer and he simply did not deliver. Here was a guy getting paid franchise player type dollars, but instead proved to be more of a overhyped, overated role player.

  32. Chris H.
    15. August 2012 at 10:39

    My bad Steve, I misread. Then that makes his numbers seem a whole lot more impressive.
    I again never hated Iggy, like some, but we just weren’t going anywhere with him as our “marquee” player. I wish him nothing but the best, but I would love to make a gentlemen’s bet with you about the hall.
    One question for you Steve, how do like Bynum? And what did you think about the trade?
    Lastly, I can say thanks for the article, even if we don’t all agree. Some of us are starved for Sixers infomation which other outlets don’t seem to care about.

  33. GDG
    16. August 2012 at 05:51

    Steve,

    Wow if you think Marion and Kirilenko are worthy of the Hall of Fame too, than I guess our standards for the Hall are just not on the same level.

    For what it’s worth, here’s a link to a “Hall of Fame probability” list from basketball reference: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_active.html

    They rate Iguodala as having a 1,94% chance of making it (Marion is at 33%, Kirilenko is not on the list). I wouldn’t hold my breath.

  34. Steve Toll
    16. August 2012 at 11:53

    JT,

    Coach K disagrees with you as do I.
    Iggy is 28th in points and 15th in assists since he entered the NBA. He has also been the 2nd best wing defender behind Lebron the past 8 seasons.

    GDG,

    98, 78, 29, 63

    Points, Rebounds, Steals, Blocks

    That is Marion’s rank in NBA history in those totala

  35. Steve Toll
    16. August 2012 at 12:06

    GDG,

    Kirilenko is one of the 10 best international players of all time and the best Russian player of all time. He is only 31 years old. I fail to see how he isn’t a lock to be in the Hall of Fame when he will likely play 8+ seasons of high level NBA, European and Olympic-World Championship Basketball

  36. Steve Toll
    16. August 2012 at 15:46

    Height
    NBA points per game
    NBA rebounds per game
    NBA assists per game
    NBA All-Star game selections
    NBA championships won

    Those the hall of fame variables used in basketball references “hall of fame probability”

    You fail to mention “ELO rating” on that same website that has the players rated this
    AK47 158
    Iggy 148
    Marion 118

    FAN RATINGS
    AK47 -169
    Iggy – 148
    Marion – 115

  37. Siska
    22. August 2012 at 22:53

    and done because those huge coctrants for rookies and one and done college players won’t be there. Those are one of the things that will be negotiated away. Those coctrants were a mistake from day one. Before the mid nineties they didn’t need a rule to say players couldn’t turn pro because there wasn’t enough money in it for teams to risk it. When the pie gets cut down NBA teams are going to want more than just potential , they will want something they know to be real before giving away the moon.

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