RANK ‘EM

Posted by: Jeff McMenamin
09/05/12 9:37 am EST

Earlier this week, ESPN.com released players #181-200 from their rankings of the 500 NBA players (The exercise is titled #NBArank) who are most valuable to their team for the 2012-13 season.  One hundred and four different basketball experts ranked the players based on a scale of 0-to-10.  Some of you may remember that prior to last season these same “experts” ranked Sixers forward Lavoy Allen as the very worst player in the NBA (#500), only to apologize to Lavoy during his incredible playoff performance against Kevin Garnett and the Boston Celtics.

With ESPN.com’s #NBA rank receiving a great deal of attention in its second year, we thought it would be a good idea to look at where some of the 76ers have appeared in the ranking so far and make a few predictions for where the remaining members of the 7-6 will be popping up on the list.   

Below are the rankings for the Sixers players who have already appeared on the 2012-13 #NBArank list:

#182 – Forward, Dorell Wright, 30 spot dip from last year’s rankings

#232 – Forward, Lavoy Allen, 268 spot leap from last year’s rankings

#332 – Center, Kwame Brown, 28 spot dip from last year’s rankings

#375 – Guard, Royal Ivey, 43 spot leap from last year’s rankings

#400 – Forward, Arnett Moultrie, first year in the rankings

On the 0-to-10 scale, Wright holds a 4.54 value rating, Lavoy a 4.02 rating, Kwame a 3.02, Ivey a 2.74, and Moultrie a 2.57.

With seven more roster spots to rank, I feel as if this is some very high praise for the current Sixers roster by basketball experts.  I believe rookie Arnett Moultrie was highly disrespected in his value.  He was ranked one spot below Tony Battie who we all know is a shell of the defensive/athletic player he once was.  Moultrie in my opinion has a ceiling as high as Allen’s last season and could propel over 100 spots in next year’s rankings. In my opinion, the other Sixers were rated fairly accurately.

Dorell Wright was ranked just above Vince Carter (#185) and Gerald Henderson (#184) in the rankings and I’m not too upset about it.  The reason for my indifference is that I don’t really know how Doug Collins is planning on using Wright next year.  I don’t see Wright filling in enough for Turner off the bench to receive 27 minutes a game again like he did last season.  I see him getting more like 20 minutes and coming in as either a shooter or high energy/speed guy off the bench.  I can see Collins going with a fast lineup of Jrue, Young, Wright, Thad, and Lavoy to give some rest to Richardson, Turner, Hawes, and Bynum.

Allen could actually be ranked a little higher, he comes in just under forwards Jason Thompson (#228) of the Kings and Patrick Patterson (#231) of the Rockets who I’d say are just about as athletically gifted as Allen.  Thompson and Patterson may be better scorers, but Allen is a better defender then each of them and possibly a better rebounder if given enough minutes.  However, I’m happy with the huge leap he made from “Mr. 500″ in the rankings a year ago.

Kwame Brown sits one spot ahead of the Bucks’ Larry Sanders at #333 and three spots below the Blazers’ Meyers Leonard at #330.  Sanders and Leonard are both considered projects at this point who have shown flashes of their potential, where as everyone knows what they’re going to get from Kwame at this point in his career.  It’s also doubtful he’ll get much playing time for the Sixers this season as he’ll be competing for minutes with a pretty solid group of bigs (Something the Sixers have not had in a long time).

Royal Ivey will be looked at more than anything for defensive purposes and the occasional three-point shot, just like he did for the team three seasons ago when he shot 50% from deep.

So the question is, how will other Sixers rank amongst others in the coming weeks of the rankings?  If it were up to me, here’s how analysts should round out the list:

1. Top 15- Center, Andrew Bynum

2. Top 40- Guard, Jrue Holiday

3. Top 60- Forward/Guard, Evan Turner

4. Top 60- Forward, Thaddeus Young

5. Top 100- Guard, Jason Richardson

6. Top 100- Forward/Center- Spencer Hawes

7. #101-150- Guard, Nick Young

N/A. Guard, Maalik Wayns- Will be cut before the season starts

That’s six players in the top fifth percentile of the League and one who’s just on the borderline.  This folks is what you call a very deep and talented team and with how young this team currently is, it’s also a team that can handle fatigue and should be less prone to injury.

Bynum is obviously the best player on the team and one of the top talents in the NBA.  He should make point guard Jrue Holiday’s job much easier next year and put him in elite point guard conversation among the NBA’s best.

The next tier of Sixers players are based on off-season progression.  I believe Evan Turner and Thaddeus Young both have the potential to improve immensely on both ends of the floor next season.  The departure of Andre Iguodala and Elton Brand will give each of them added minutes next season.  So now it’s up to ET and Thad to capitalize on those additional minutes and have breakout season next year.

Rounding out my final three picks are Jason Richardson and Spencer Hawes, who I both believe should be in the top 100, and Nick Young who should at least make the top 150 cut-line.  Richardson and Hawes each have the chance to play pivotal roles for the the Sixers next season.  It’s assumed that Richardson will start at shooting guard and Hawes at power forward, so being a starter alone should give them more production than their bench counterparts (with the exception of Thad).

For Richardson it comes down to his shooting ability, defense, and leadership.  He’s a big guard who’s currently the oldest player on the team.  He’s shown throughout his career how much of a threat he can be from the perimeter if left open and he’s guarded nearly every type of guard you can imagine in his career.  What will most likely take away from his minutes and production is his health and age. I believe Richardson still has some good years left in him and will be up for the challenge.

Hawes is the player I’m more worried about next season.  He showed tremendous growth last season and proved to be a special talent at the beginning and end of the season, but that’s what worries me the most.  Obviously his play can be attributed to his health, but he played very inconsistent when he returned from his Achilles injury and he was spotty at best on the defensive end all season.  Bynum should help him on defense and give him more open mid-range looks, but I’m not just ready to say he’s the Sixers best option at power forward. For offense and rebounding yes, for defense and consistency I’d put Lavoy Allen in his place. The shooting guard and power forward positions are definitely the biggest question marks next season and Richardson and Hawes will be under a microscope from the start.

My final selection was Nick Young strictly based on his projected role next season.  Young is expected to fill Lou Williams’ role as a scoring threat off the bench.  He’s not a good defender, however Young has enough size where he could become at least a solid defender under Doug Collins. Unless he drastically improves on the defensive end, I don’t want Young to sniff a minute of crunch-time next year.  Lou’s offense made up for his defense, but Young is not Lou and right now he’s too much of a liability.  He has to prove himself before he can play that role on the team.

So Philadunkia nation, what do you think?  How do you think this team should rank from top to bottom?  Who do you think will make the Lavoy Allen-type jump next season?

 


 
 
 

25 Responses to “RANK ‘EM”

  1. Matt
    5. September 2012 at 11:01

    wow, jrue in the top 40 and thad/turner in the top 60,i think that’s being pretty generous..

  2. jack
    5. September 2012 at 16:12

    Pretty sure nick young will make the biggest leap on that list. I love the fact we signed to him to a 1 year deal and that theres a role for him on this team he might really enjoy. Ive read doug collins is a huge fan. Aside from him being one of the most selfish players the past couple seasons he has shown elite offensive talent, and considering how rare of a breed he is with proper coaching and commitment he could really be a better lou williams this year makin shots at the end of clock.

  3. Steve Toll
    5. September 2012 at 16:13

    Jeff,

    ESPN Ratings as a whole, are a total joke. That’s pretty obvious.

    I have to ask: Do you just make this stuff up?

    Here are some FACTS that every piece of statistics you can look up back up.

    Dorell Wright has been more consistent and superior to ET, JRich and Nick Young the past 2 seasons! His rank is terrible, I don’t understand your assessment.

    Jrue Holiday Is barely a Top 20 point guard: Rose, CP3, Nash, Westbrook, Williams, Parker, Rondo, Ty Lawson, Steph Curry, Mike Conley, Rubio, Irving, Jeff Teague, Lowry, Calderon, Wall, Stuckey, Lou Williams.
    All of those PG’s are superior to Holiday.
    Lou Williams had a Higher Assist % and TS% last season than Jrue and was 5th in the NBA in assist:turnover ratio, in case you were wondering.

    There are 30 teams in the NBA: Bynum, Thad, Lavoy, Hawes, Wright, Richardson are superior to Turner, how could he even be Top 120 in a best case scenario?

    Thaddeus is the worst PF in the division, as a SF he would be Top 8 in the league. Thad is good enough in the regular season to play Hybrid but as I detailed in a previous article, he is a SF. He will never play the majority PF minutes on a team that wins a playoff series (Chicago without Rose and Noah does not count)

    Jason Richardson isn’t even a top 25 SG: Wade, Kobe, Manu, Harden, Terry, Ellis, Mayo, Fields, Joe Johnson, Eric Gordon Ray Allen, Kevin Martin, Chauncey Billups, Marcus Thornton, Paul George, Tony Allen, Brandon Rush, JR Smith, Ronnie Brewer, Wesley Matthews, Danny Green, Meeks, JJ Redick, Dorell Wright, Lou Williams

    Also, Richardson is not a good defender, he is also under 6,’5 that is not a big SG. For Nick Young, I could probably list another 15 or so SGs who are superior.

    Hawes is a Top 100 player, he isn’t great on defense but it’s not for a lack of effort. He is a capable scorer, passer, rebounder and shot blocker. I’m quite high on Hawes and he is actuslly 6 months young than Andrew Bynum.

    Based on per minute production last season, Lavoy Allen is certainly a Top 100 player.

    Kwame, Moultrie, Ivey are all in the bottom the the NBA in talent and shouldn’t play competitive minutes.

  4. Matt as well
    5. September 2012 at 16:16

    All the Sixers besides Jrue and Bynum will be on the list before it reaches 100. Then Jrue could appear anywhere from 60-100, and Bynum will be in the top 20.

  5. ken
    5. September 2012 at 17:13

    i wana say that jrue, thad and et will have those ranks next year after playing with bynum and putting up better numbers but for ranks based on last year they are about 20 spots too high id say

  6. Jeff McMenamin
    5. September 2012 at 19:13

    Steve Toll,

    You are a writer for an ESPN affiliated site. Get that straight first of all before you start trashing the way it’s run.

    You obviously love starting arguments. It’s at the point where it’s just getting funny to me.

    Dorell Wright is a consistently good player, I agree with you. He’s not a superior player to those three players though at this point in his career. Of all teams, the lowly Warriors last season cut his minutes by 11 mpg, after he had a career year. He’s a defensive liability. His defensive WS hasn’t been higher than 2.2 his entire career and was just 0.8 last season. He’s slightly better than a role player, just because of his size and speed. The Sixers are only looking for him to shoot the 3-ball next season which is why analysts considered his value to be as low as it is. Look at Jason Kapono before coming to the Sixers. Same type of player minus the athleticism, had a career year shooting the 3-ball the season before for the Raptors, and came to the Sixers and had his worst seasons in the NBA.

    However, I do think Wright will fare better with the way this Sixers team is setup compared to Kapono’s teams. I originally thought Wright to be a top 150 calibur player until the rankings came out showing he was slighted, but dropping his minutes could kill his numbers and production and there’s no reason to believe it won’t. I think you’re underestimating the cause and effect taking minutes away from an NBA player.

    As for Jrue’s ranking, Jrue never had Andrew Bynum to feed the ball to in the post. He’s had to play as more of a shooting-point guard because of the lack of talent in the paint. He not only has Bynum now, but Evan Turner is his best friend on the team and they’ve been practicing plays together every offseason and he now finally will have him by his side in the starting lineup to execute those plays with. An added bonus is the addition of quality shooters that can knock down shots and a big man that will draw so much attention from defenses that it will leave guys wide open. Based on his situation last season, Jrue wasn’t able to scratch his potential. Next season he’ll have every opportunity to. Didn’t you also just write an article saying he could be an elite PG in the NBA? http://philadunkia.com/?p=7148

    So you must be contradicting yourself.

    Until you get through your skull that Turner has never had the right opportunity in the NBA until next season, than I’m not even going to waste my breath on talking about your statement.

    Thaddeus Young is perfect as a bench power forward. He comes in with speed and intensity against slower opponent’s and can beat them off the dribble. His speed makes up for his size and if he puts on 20 pounds in the offseason he will be stronger than you think against other bigs. Thaddeus played 28 mpg last season for 4th on the team, 1 tick lower than Elton Brand per game.

    You’re missing the point about the rankings. It’s not about who’s the best, it’s about who holds the most value. Jason Richardson is a big guard. 6’5″, 220 pounds is one inch smaller and 15 pounds stonger than the best SG in the NBA for the past 10 years…Kobe Bryant. Plus he went to college at Tom Izzo’s Michigan State and knows the value of defense. He saved his coaches ass a few years ago…
    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/video-jason-richardson-leaps-off-bench-play-defense-145754425.html

    He’ll take plenty of shots next season as an expected starter and is a career 37% shooter from deep. He’s ninth on the list of active players in 3-point FG’s. He’s also currently ranked #216 on Basketball-Reference’s elo ratings which ranks the best players in NBA history.
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/elo.cgi

    Nick Young has the opportunity to become a good player in this league. He’ll be given plenty of minutes and that’s why he’s valued so high. If he really works at his game and role in the offseason he could be in talks for the sixth man of the league or most improved player. That’s how much of a ceiling I think he has. He has to drop the whole “Nick Swag” front though, or else he may really be another Lou Williams all over again. ESPN.com actually just rated him #165 in their player rankings, so lower than I expected but I think because of his minutes increase he’ll prove to be more valuable to the Sixers next season.

    I think we (kind of) agree on the Hawes/Lavoy situation. I can’t call Lavoy a top 100 player until he’s given a chance to be one. In terms of next season I hope he gets minutes but I’ll believe it when I see it from coach Collins. He did Lavoy wrong for most of last season in terms of minutes, but I hope what he did in the playoffs has changed Collins’ mind about him.

    It’s not even worth it to talk about the bottom feeders, unless Moultrie finds enough minutes to prove he can be effective. Until then they stand where they are.

    -Jeff

  7. Hank
    5. September 2012 at 19:34

    Yea, this is extremely wishful thinking. Jrue certainly could take a leap next year, but this year he’s not even close to top 40. A point guard who scored ~15ppg and hasn’t shown a consistent ability to distribute won’t crack the top 60 or 70, let alone the top 40. Bynum has a shot at the top 10, though in my opinion (21 & 11 second half last year.)

  8. Will
    5. September 2012 at 19:50

    Ok Steve, here’s the thing. I like a lot of your analysis, and I particularly thought your recent piece on Holiday was awesome. But please, for the love of God, stop writing like you’re some renaissance man leading us all out of the Dark Ages with your incredible knowledge and understanding of statistics. Don’t get me wrong, I love looking at all stats, but I really don’t think they’re the be-all and end-all for evaluating a player. Basketball isn’t baseball; there’s more to consider than just numbers. Basically, I really like the fact that you offer a different perspective from a lot of other writers, and I think what you have to say is really interesting, but I also think that you’d be well served to be more willing to consider opinions that differ from your’s.

  9. Steve Toll
    6. September 2012 at 00:22

    My analysis is something like this

    Bynum – 10
    Thaddeus – 59 at SF, 115 at PF
    Dorell Wright – 81
    Lavoy Allen – 85
    Spencer Hawes – 89
    Jason Richardson – 139
    Holiday – 154
    Turner – 170

  10. Matt
    6. September 2012 at 10:38

    Players better than Jrue (in no order, just off the top of my head). That easy to name 40 players better than Jrue.. just saying

    1. Lebron
    Wade
    Bosh
    Kobe
    Dwight
    Pierce
    Garnett
    Rondo
    Dirk
    10. Parker
    Ginobili
    Duncan
    Deron Williams
    Durrant
    Westbrook
    Harden
    Rose
    CP3
    Griffin
    20. Melo
    Amare
    Chandler
    Kevin Love
    Bynum
    Rudy Gay
    Pau Gasol
    Mark Gasol
    JET
    Nash
    30. Al Jefferson
    Kyrie Irving
    Noah
    Hibbert
    Ibaka
    Iggy
    Eric Gordon
    Ellis
    Joe Johnson
    Aldrige
    40. Tyreke Evans

  11. Philadunkia
    6. September 2012 at 13:47

    Matt,

    I’ll agree with you about everyone on your list except for the following players:

    Amare (one dimensional even in his prime)
    Aldridge (it remains to be seen what he has left given his injury history)
    Evans (3 dimensional; can’t spell PASS and is a prima donna)
    Noah (2 dimensional)
    Chandler (2 dimensional)
    Ellis (extremely one-dimensional)

    In my opinion Holiday is a better all around NBA player then any of the above from your list. Sure he doesn’t score like Ellis or block shots like Chandler or rebound like Noah, but he is a 5-tool player (handle the ball, score/shoot, rebound, pass and play defense) which is something none of them can claim.

    Thanks for reading and commenting.

    – C. Smith

  12. Steve Toll
    6. September 2012 at 17:52

    Jeff,

    While you may not agree with what I write, some of ESPNs main NBAwriters do.  Here is an article with a direct link to my Philadunkia JRue article, http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/49511/masonhaberstroh-post

    About my so called contradiction: Holiday could become an elite point guard but as of right now, he is not.  There is no contradiction in my statements, this year, there are at least 20 points guards I would prefer the 76ers to have on the roster.  

    Also, Jeff, we previously had a disagreement about Andre Iguodala’s Hall of Fame potential in the comment section of, An Ode to Dre and Tweaking the Big Trade,  you are quoted as saying in reference to Iguodala this upcoming season
     ”Andre Iguodala will play the same role he always does…as a good complimentary player. That’s a fact.”

    Here is a recent ESPN article about future Hall of Fame potential of current players, http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8344103/nba-which-current-players-course-hall-fame-someday

    This is an ESPN Insider article, for those without insider, I’ll break it down.  It says based on HOF metrics used by Bradford Doolittle of Basketball Prospectus that Andre Iguodala has a 57% chance to pass the HOF statistical threshold in the next 5 seasons.  

    Would you still say that Iguodala is a role player?

    Philadelphia acquired Dorell Wright, Jason Richardson and Nick Young this offseason.  Let’s compare their past 2 season averages and Evan Turner just in 2012 to see who is the best player.

    JRich – 32mpg, PER of 14.3 and 2 year adjusted +/- of -1.91,
    TS%   OREB%   DREB%   AST%   STL%   BLK%   TO%  USAGE 
    .535      2.79         11.28      10.23     1.8        .66       8.13     20.45

    Nick Young – 30mpg, PER of 13.7 and 2 year adjusted +/- of -4.63
    TS%   OREB%   DREB%   AST%   STL%   BLK%   TO%  USAGE 
    .526      1.68         7.77        6.19       1.19      .69       8.37    24.58

    Dorell Wright – 33mpg, PER of 15.0 and 2 year adjusted +/- of -.43 
    TS%   OREB%   DREB%   AST%   STL%   BLK%   TO%  USAGE 
    .544      3.44         13.39      10.64     1.93      1.4       9.12     18.61

    Evan Turner 2012, PER of 12.6 and 1 year adjusted +/- of -6.75
    TS%   OREB%   DREB%   AST%   STL%   BLK%   TO%  USAGE
    .478       1.7          22.8         16.9      1.2        .9         14.1     20.3

    Jason Richardson is 31, Wright is 26, Nick Young is 27 and ET will be 24 before the start of the season.

    You stated in regards to Dorell Wright, “He’s not a superior player to those three players though at this point in his career”

    Do you believe that to be true after looking at the numbers?  
    You also say the rankings are about value! A 31 year old owed 19 million the next 3 years is more valuable than a 26 year old who is a superior player and paid 4 million this season?

    Please explain these Evan Turner stats:
    Sixers Record with Turner last 2 years, % is how much the Sixers win
    15-19 in 30+ minutes, 44%
    34-31 in 20-29 minutes, 52%
    25-18 in under 20 minutes, 58%

    Here is a direct quote about Turner from You
    “Year two his attitude improved and he worked hard to become better in the offseason. He started off the season in a great way. Yet by the time February rolled around, Collins started to play with his minutes again and you could see him becoming frustrated again and making mistakes. It wasn’t until early March that Collins decided to give him his minutes again”

    Turners averages through the first 20 games last year up until February                                    
    27mpg 10.2pts (47fg% 17-3pt% 65ft%) .5 OReb, 5.6DReb, 2.8 AST, .7 STL, 1.6 TO, 2 Fouls

    Turners averages from February 1st through March 5th, when he “lost” his minutes according to you               
     21mpg 4.9 pts (32fg% 33-3pt% 70ft%) .5 OReb, 5.1 DReb, 2.4 AST, .3 STL, .9 TO, 1.3 Fouls

    Turners averages once he got his minutes back through the end of the season                             30mpg 11.8pts (48fg% 21-3pt% 72ft%) .3 OReb, 5 DReb, 2.7 AST, .7 STL, 2 TO, 2 Fouls

    Steve Toll’s Analysis: 
    Turner was a better player in the first 20 games then he was at the end of the season and he played less minutes to start the year.  Turner was less terrible than usual in the middle of the season and that is why he was benched.  He played 30mpg per at the end of the season and was still far below average, there is no reason to expect he becomes a good player.

    THAD is not a Power Forward, he is a Small Forward.  He can get away with playing a hybrid in the regular season but not in the playoffs.  This article may help shine some light on Thad, http://philadunkia.com/?p=6972

    C. Smith

    Aldridge was All-NBA in 2011 and an All-Star in 2012, prior to this season he missed 12 games in 4 seasons

    Chandler is the reigning Defensive Player of the Year and 3rd team All-NBA this year, he was also the anchor on the 2011 NBA champs

    Noah played 64 games this year and over the course of the season was the best player on Chicago, who was tied for best record in the NBA

    Tyreke Evans is certainly better than Holiday, playing with good teammates makes your job much easier.  Tyreke is bigger, stronger and more skilled than Holiday.  His weak shooting stroke is more than made up for his ability to get to the rack and get fouled.

    I’d take each of those 4 players over Holiday.

    Amare and Ellis, no way, they are massively overpaid

  13. Corey
    7. September 2012 at 04:25

    Wow, this article is ridiculous. The rankings aren’t based on what you think the players will be this year, its based on what players have been. There are 30 teams in the nba, if you think that ET and Jrue are top 60 players, than you think they would be among the best one or two on most nba teams. ET couldn’t even start last year on an 8th seeded sixers team. If 30 players make the all-star team you think that these two were just outside that tier? Are you on PCP? Steve I couldn’t agree with you more. Obviously you didn’t read that article or his follow up pieces carefully cause he was saying what jrue needs to do, not what he has or can do. Steve also stated that they are in the second tier of eastern conference playoff reams. When turner proves he can make a jump shot and take over a game a few times a year, maybe we’ll start to change our tune. As of right now based on what I’ve seen the past two years he shouldn’t even be a starter for the 7-6 this year and is on the path to being one of the biggest busts in sixers history. One player who may make the top 60 (and I think should) is demarcus cousins, the guy the sixers should have drafted, he and bynum would be great together. Don’t quit your day job.

  14. Jiggenstein
    8. September 2012 at 14:26

    Steve Toll, I DON’T CARE ABOUT YOUR FREAKING STATS.

  15. Jeff McMenamin
    8. September 2012 at 14:49

    Steve,

    Your latest article on Bynum just solidified how little you know about the game of basketball. I think many who read this site would agree with that statement. Everything you’ve written for this site outside of the piece on Jrue, which I actually did find interesting, have been too biased through the use of advanced statistics to argue very irrational points.

    Even your arguments against me here in this comment section you totally disregard my arguments and try to pull up totally unrelated arguments to try and strengthen your argument.

    Lets break this down…

    You claimed about Thaddeus Young…”Thaddeus is the worst PF in the division, as a SF he would be Top 8 in the league. Thad is good enough in the regular season to play Hybrid but as I detailed in a previous article, he is a SF. He will never play the majority PF minutes on a team that wins a playoff series (Chicago without Rose and Noah does not count).

    There’s no validity to that statement. That’s a total guess by you. Thaddeus was a SF in college. He’s rarely played a tick of small forward in the NBA. Transitioning back to that position wouldn’t be such a great idea when you have a ready Evan Turner to take that role.

    I told you…”Thaddeus played 28 mpg last season for 4th on the team, 1 tick lower than Elton Brand per game.”

    You completely disregarded that statement. He plays the majority of minutes on this team whether you accept it or not. He has one of the biggest contracts on the team and the organization expects a lot out of him. Without Thad, the Sixers wouldn’t have “the night shift”. He’s been a key piece to our transition offense. He’s not a great defender, but when he gets rolling he’s a tough guy to stop.

    You say…”Jrue Holiday Is barely a Top 20 point guard: Rose, CP3, Nash, Westbrook, Williams, Parker, Rondo, Ty Lawson, Steph Curry, Mike Conley, Rubio, Irving, Jeff Teague, Lowry, Calderon, Wall, Stuckey, Lou Williams. All of those PG’s are superior to Holiday.”

    Really? That is an absurd statement. I’ll give you up to Ty Lawson plus Rubio and Irving. But, Steph Curry, Mike Conley, Jeff Teague, Kyle Lowry, Jose Calderon, John Wall, Stuckey, and Lou Williams have no business being ranked above Holiday.

    That would make him the 11th best PG coming into this season where he has options at his disposal which could put him 3-5 spots higher on the list. The possibility of becoming a top 6 PG in the NBA next season should make his rank extremely high which I think analysts think as well.

    You still don’t understand what I meant by value of a player. It doesn’t mean value as in contractual worth. Jason Richardson is a true shooting guard with playoff experience and leadership qualities. As an added bonus he’s a career 37% shooter from deep and you still didn’t explain to me how Richardson is not a big shooting guard, you avoided it because you know I’m right. Ray Allen is 37 and still proving to be effective in his role. He’s actually about the same size as Richardson but 15 pounds lighter. All Richardson has to do is emulate what Ray Allen did for the Boston Celtics and since 2004 Jason Richardson comes second to Ray Allen in 3-point FG’s made and play solid defense. I think he’s definitely capable of the challenge and could still have some of his best seasons ahead of him. Until Dorell Wright can consistently be among the tops in the league in 3-point FG’s made, then I’d take Richardson or Allen over him any day of the week even with their contracts and age. I have nothing against Wright, in fact I think he’ll be a key member of “the night shift”, but he’s a role player in the NBA, not a starter.

    In regards to Turner, like I said already…”Until you get through your skull that Turner has never had the right opportunity in the NBA until next season, than I’m not even going to waste my breath on talking about your statement.”

    The “Kid” ET is going to grow up into an “Adult” next season on the court. He’s finally getting the role he wanted since draft day. A starter at his true position. There’s going to be a lot of pressure on him which is why I’m sure he’s taking this offseason very seriously to grow up. Every NBA player goes through growing pains, some players take longer to grow. I believe Turner has shown tremendous growth from his first season to last season, and I believe you’ll see tremendous growth from last season to this season. This season has all the signs of Turner having a career year. If he doesn’t, feel free to hate and I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong, but until then I would save your hatred and give the kid his chance.

    Either way one of us will be eating our words next season.

    Corey,
    Actually, the rankings clearly state they’re based on “who’s most valuable to their team for the 2012-13 season.” So no…you’re wrong. I believe Bynum, Jrue, and Turner are the three most valuable players to the Sixers for the 2012-13 season. Thad is just underneath them, which I also showed in my estimation. Jrue and Turner both have the capability to play within those rankings. I truly believe that. I’ve read all of Steve Toll’s articles actually. And if you’re taking Steve Toll’s side, then I guess you also agree that the Sixers are going to be a lottery team next season? Because that’s what he thinks and wrote. I agree Cousins is an absolute beast and should be a Sixer right now, but the bottom line is he’s not. Turner is and his improved play shouldn’t go unnoticed which Toll consistently avoids giving him credit for. He knocks him based on advanced statistics, when the guy hasn’t even gotten his shot as a starter in the NBA yet.

    In any case, thanks for reading and commenting,
    Jeff

  16. Matt
    11. September 2012 at 11:11

    lol nbarank evan turner #119…

  17. Matt
    11. September 2012 at 11:12

    and hawes 118

  18. Jeff McMenamin
    11. September 2012 at 17:47

    @Matt

    Unbelievable. I’m not too upset at Richardson ranked #121 or Hawes #118. Still right around the edge of where I put them. I don’t agree with Turner at #119 though at all. Like many have already been responding on twitter to #NBArank…He has the potential to be a Top 50 player. He’s Penny 2.0 as people have been calling him. I do think I slightly overvalued Turner (he should’ve been top 80 not top 60), but I didn’t foresee him being ranked nearly 60 spots lower at #119. I’m suddenly not so happy about the ESPN rankings on the Sixers. I’d like to know what you think about the latest spots.

    #118, Hawes
    #119, Turner
    #121, Richardson
    #165, Young

    -Jeff

  19. john
    11. September 2012 at 22:19

    Thad 2012-13 sixth man of the year.

  20. Steve Toll
    12. September 2012 at 15:07

    Thaddeus Young who was 46th in per in 2011 and 49th this past season is somehow lower on NBA rank than……….

    Jrue Holiday who has been 26th and 34th among ONLY Point Guards in PER the past 2 seasons

  21. Steve Toll
    13. September 2012 at 00:13

    Jeff,

    Did you just refer to Evan Turner as Penny 2.0? I’ll breakdown their seasons at age 23

    Penny Hardaway at 23 was an All-Star, 1st team All-NBA and played on a team that was the #1 seed in the Eastern Conference and made the NBA Finals.
    Hardaway put up 21 pts (TS% .599), 4.4 reb (1.8 OReb), 7.2 Ast , 1.7 steals that year

    Evan Turner at 23 put up a 12.4 PER on an 8th seed. Evan Turners per 48 minute numbers this past season look like this:
    17.1 pts (TS% .478), 10.5 reb (.8 OReb), 5 Ast, 1.1 steals per 48 minutes

  22. Matt
    13. September 2012 at 14:35

    @jeff

    I think hawes is spot on, could even have been 10-20 slots lower. He has potential to be good, maybe top 75 next year, but b/c of his injuries I can understand a lower rank for him.

    for turner, i understand it as well. he has shown flashes but not enough consistency, although that is likely more on collins than fault of his own. the other issue is that he’s still a tweener guard/SF player. hopefully with richardson he will be a steady SF and work on his inside game/mid range jumper. he has no business shooting 3′s. i’m ok with his slot right now b/c even though the rankings are based on potential for this season, his playtime and plays run for him will be so random and based on how collins feels that morning.

    richardson i’d consider ranking higher than hawes b/c of his consistent play through his career.

    young i thought was low, but it’s hard to judge b/c of his constant switching as a SF/PF. it’s a shame turner has such a terrible shot right now b/c based on his size and speed and decent handle, he would be a great SG and then thad could slot over to SF permanently to develop a consistent game there.

  23. Jeff McMenamin
    14. September 2012 at 00:09

    Steve,

    It’s what a lot of people on twitter were calling him. Penny proved to be 10 times the player Turner was at this point in their careers. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have the potential to be as good as Penny if he dedicates himself to improving his game, which I think is why people think of him that highly. It’s like when people were calling Isiah Rider baby Jordan…obviously Isiah Rider never came close to Jordan as a player, but his dunking ability showed flashes. Turner has a longgg way to go to be Penny.

    Matt,

    Thanks for the input. I do think Thad and Turner were jobbed somewhat, but I guess I can understand based on the unknown position/playing time factors.

  24. Ayob
    25. October 2012 at 09:41

    One thing I will point out is no matter what is settad in the blog, I have to give credit to Elton Brand for being a pros pro and even during this downward spiral over the last 12 he has put it all out there on the court. He has attempted to lead by example and even carried the team on his back to victory against Atlanta. His numbers are up for March and April and averaged 12.5 points 8.8 rebounds 2.1 assist 1.8 Blocks and 1.1 Steals in 31 minutes a game in March. We need that and more from him down the stretch. He clearly came into camp a little out of shape, but like a lot of the veterans he is now coming into form. He is the only guy who doesn’t look tired right now. EB can’t control that Doug hasn’t been running plays for him or that they haven’t been finding him in his sweet spots. Even in the Miami game even though his shot wasn’t falling he managed to get to the line 6 times, making all 6. Why didn’t Doug continue to give him the ball as he was the one player who wasn’t afraid to draw contact. Doug may be wearing on this group, but unfortunately he can’t teach toughness as that is an inherent trate and outside of Brand, Battie, and probably Lou I can’t say who on this team has that. We rely too heavily on the jump shot and refuse to take it to the basket. Thaddeus Young used to go to the rim, but his high motor style of play has worn him out in this compressed season. The same can be said for Lou Williams as well. Predicting a win tonight against Orlando as for some reason when the chips seemed to be stacked against this bunch they find a way to rebound. If they don’t win tonight then you can call it a wrap.

  25. Barbara
    27. October 2012 at 02:55

    At the start of the season the Sixers were pyanilg beautiful basketball. They stopped. Why? I dont blame Collins. I blame a culture in US hoops where guys will not sustain the energy demanded of certain systems. Watch the first twenty games and watch the defensive pressure. Its gone. We live in an era where a lot of young players think about contracts and thats it. Iguadola is really the star .but Turner and holiday have turned out to be less than the organization expected. So chalk that up to bad drafting. But Collins had them, for a while, pyanilg the best team game Ive seen in a while. Its not his fault they stopped trying ..and maybe on one level that IS collins’ problem .but its probably mostly the wrong roster. A few moves might correct it, and might not. But Turner and Holiday are not the answers as the two and three guys.

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