MOST BANG FOR THE BUCK ??

Posted by: Steve Toll
09/07/12 12:28 pm EST

Welcome to Philadelphia, Andrew.  You’ve told fans that you like the city and that’s great but have you checked out the banks?  Philly has lots of em’ and I think they will be to your liking but the question for me is, “Are you worth it?”.  

 At first glance you certainly seem to be worth it, but it’s important to see if the numbers back up intuition.  As my previous articles have stated, the numbers make the world go round.  In this case, the numbers say you aren’t worth the money.

It’s been reported that Bynum and his representative did not speak to anyone from the 76ers prior to this trade.  That isn’t a bad sign, but it’s certainly not a good one.  If Bynum doesn’t sign an extension this season, he is leaving once the season is over.  You see, the fifth year that Philly can Bynum offer is just not the Ace of Spades that people think it is.

Seriously, if you could go play with Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon and The BROW or Holiday, Turner, Jrich, Lavov and Hawes, where would you go if you wanted to both win and party?

That isn’t the only team that will be vying for his services come this off-season, but that’s at least one with a more attractive offer.

Hopefully, that doesn’t happen and Bynum stays in Philadelphia, that’s what’s best right?

If Bynum signs the 3 year extension sometime this year, it will be for $60 million.  The next 3 years Bynum would be set to make $55 million, which would be this year and the first 2 years of his extension, in his 4th year Bynum would make $21+ million.

That is a problem, a fairly large problem.  The past few seasons, many quality power forwards and centers have signed deals that pay far less then what Bynum is slated to make.  In a League with a salary cap, Bynum isn’t worth that money.  Signing Bynum to a massive extension (instead of possibly trading him at midseason) is essentially going to keep Philadelphia mediocre for the next few years.

I’m sure there will be lots of disagreement about the list. Feel free to go look at Basketball Reference, 82Games, Basketball Value, NBA Stats Cube, Synergy Sports and you will see that all the below guys are more valuable and the numbers back it up.

Here is a list of front court players who will be more valuable than Bynum over the next 3 years and how much less they will make a season the next 3 years. Bynum is set to make 55 million the next 3 seasons, regardless for where or how many years the deal is. The % what percentage they are paid of Bynum’s average salary the next 3 years.  Example, Tyson Chandler is paid 75% of what Bynum is paid.

Bynum produced 8 Win Shares (WS) in 2012, per NBA reference.  I will notate each players WS in 2012 and the % of production compared to Bynum which will be listed on the right of WS in ()

Tyson Chandler — $4.6 million less per year; 75%, 9.5 WS (118%)

Kevin Love —  $4.9 million less per year; 74%, 10 WS (125%)

*Al Horford — $6.3 million less per year; 66% 8 WS  (100%)

Kevin Garnett — $6.3 million less per year; 66%, 6.9 WS (86%)

Blake Griffin — $6.4 million less per year; 65%, 9.2 WS (115%)

Joakim Noah — $6.9 million less per year; 62%, 9 WS (112%)

DeAndre Jordan — $ 7.3 million less per year; 60%, 5.6 WS (70%)

**JaVale McGee — $7.9 million less per year; 57%, 4.1 WS (51%)

Tim Duncan — $8.3 million less per year; 55%, 5.9 WS (74%)

***Anderson Verajao  — $9.1 million less per year; 51%, 2.1 WS (27%)

Serge Ibaka — $9.3 million less per year; 48%, 6.2 WS (78%)

Ryan Anderson– $9.9 million less per year; 45%, 8.9 WS (111%)

Ersan Illyasova — $10.3 million less per year; 43%, 6.4 WS (80%)

Amir Johnson — $11.8 million less per year; 37%, 4.0 WS (50%)

Marcus Camby — $14 million less per year; 23%, 3.6 WS (45%)

*Horford produced 10 WS in 2011.  The 2012 season was approximately 80% of the 2011 season in terms of games player.  Horford produced the equivalent of 8 WS in 2012 when using his 2011 numbers.

**JaVale McGee was woefully underplayed this year.  He matched up very well against Bynum in their head to head matches and put up a 20+ PER in 7 playoff games this year against the Lakers.

***Varajeo had some injury issues last season but on a per minute level is around 60+% as productive as Bynum

There isn’t one player on that list that a knowledgeable NBA person wouldn’t take over Bynum when you factor in the money.  Is there any doubt that each of these players will be more productive than Bynum when you factor in how much more Bynum is paid?

For example, Marcus Camby, 38, played 24 mpg this year; was 1st in rebound % (3rd year in a row) and 9th in block%. Camby also has a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio the past 3 years.  Even if he slips in production the next few years, $14 million will / can buy a lot of talent in today’s NBA.  Camby, isn’t as good as Bynum but he only makes 23% of what Bynum does.  Camby was 44% as productive as Bynum this year, according to Basketball Reference

Amir Johnson, 25, has played 25mpg the past 2 years.  He has averaged 8.4 points (TS% 60) 6.4 rebounds; a better AST:TO ratio than Bynum and 1.8 combined steals+blocks per game.  He is not as good as Bynum but he is only paid 37% of what Bynum makes.  Amir was 50% as productive as Bynum this year, according to Basketball Reference.

Here are more players who are more valuable than Bynum.

Marcin Gortat makes $10.5 million less per year the next 2 seasons…he is then a free agent.

Andrei Kirilenko is owed $20 million the next 2 seasons; that’s 7 million less than Bynum

Paul Millsap makes $7.2 million this year and is then a free agent.  According to NBA Reference; Millsap produced 7.8 wins compared to 8 wins for Bynum this past season.

ZaZa Pachulia makes $11 million less this year.  Samuel Dalembert makes $10 million less this year than Bynum.  Nikola Pekovic makes $12 million less this year.  Combined these 3 guys make less than Bynum does in 2012-2013; they also produced 13.6 win shares between them last year.

If you had $17 million to spend this year and your options were either Andrew Bynum or Lavoy Allen+Spencer Hawes+7.5 million in cap space, which option would you take to get the most out of your money?

This is assuming the money is spent on a good player and not Nick Young.  The choice is easily Lavoy, Hawes and $7.5 million.

FYI: $7.5 million this off-season would have bought: Camby; Meeks; Ronnie Brewer and Birdman

The dearly departed Elton Brand wil get paid $2.1 million dollars for this upcoming season. He might get a 2yr $10 million dollar deal next off-season.  You’d be a sorely mistaken to take Bynum in 13-14 and 14-15 at $34+ million over Elton Brand at $10 million total for 2 years.

Chris Andersen is currently out of a job and a very good player. He is likely to make under $5 million dollars the next 3 seasons total; which again makes him someone far more valuable than Bynum.

If you look at guys on rookie contracts: Faried; Cousins; Monroe; Ed Davis; Derrick Favors; Gustavo Ayon; Enes Kanter and even Nik Vucevic are more valuable than Bynum. Rookies like Jonas Valunciunas and Thomas Robinson; yup; more valuable than Bynum.

That being said Bynum is likely more valuable the next 3 years then this group of players: Bosh; Dirk; Aldridge; Hibbert; Marc Gasol; Pau Gasol; Brook Lopez; Al Jefferson; Josh Smith; Bogut; Amare; Boozer; David Lee; Perkins; Biedrins.

On elite teams Bynum would be worth the money because of the additional championship equity his addition to the team would bring.  Currently, Philadelphia is not one of those teams.  San Antonia; Denver and Boston among others; are teams that make sense to pay Bynum, not Philadelphia.

Furthermore, a young team with a bunch of promising players on rookie deals would also work.  Unfortunately, Philly isn’t one of those teams either.  New Orleans and Utah are those type of teams.

Philadelphia is kind of stuck in no man’s land.  It will be extreme tough to build a contender as the team is presently constructed.  Remember, Philly isn’t likely to have a 1st round draft pick the next two seasons.  Here is what each player will count against the cap next season for what will be the 2013-2014 (we will assume the cap is $58 million).

Bynum – $17.3 million

We will assume that he signs an extension this season. He is our Centerpiece.

Thaddeus Young – $8.9 million

As I detailed in…The Thad Question

Thaddeus Young has every tool to be a superb SF.  However, DC currently has him penciled in as a Hybrid 4 which can be successful in the regular season but a negative in the postseason.  Thad will be a 76er for years to come

Evan Turner – $6.7 million

I fear that even with another sub par year from Evan Turner; he will still be on the team in 2013-2014.  The 76ers do have the player option in 13-14 so they could potentially clear ET off the cap.  If Turner’s option is picked up; he is a restricted free agent after in the 2015 offseason.

Jason Richardson – $6.2 million

J-Rich will be 32 next offseason and likely be an average SG with a player in 14-15 for $6.6 million. He can actually be traded before next offseason. The Bulls made a large mistake in overpaying Rip Hamilton and are essentially capped out the next couple seasons anyway. Philadelphia could trade Jason Richardson and $3 million to Chicago for Rip’s expiring contract.  A deal which benefits both Philly and Chicago.

For the purposes of this article, we will assume this trade is done.

Spencer Hawes – $6.5 million

Hawes has the skills to be a very good NBA player. He was the top HS recruit in the country; very good in 1 year of college and a lottery pick after. He has improved every season with a unique offensive skill set. Hawes needs to improve on defense but he is 6 months younger than Andrew Bynum and isn’t likely to peak as a player for at least 3 more years

Lavoy Allen – $3.1 million

Regardless of Allen’s performance this season which I think will be quite good, he will be on the team in 13-14 and an unrestricted free agent the next offseason

Kwame Brown – $3 million

Next off-season, Kwame can be traded along with $3 million cash to any team willing to take him on as a reserve C.  We will assume that Kwame is traded next off-season.

Arnett Moultrie – $1.1 million

History is not on the side of Moultrie; he is about 2% to be an NBA reserved Still he is cheap and reward if he actually works out

Here is the 2013-2014 76ers; and their 2015 off-season status and beyond

Bynum – $17.3 mil; 18.5 mil in 2015; 20 mil in 2016

Thad – $8.6 mil; 9.2 mil in 2015; 9.8 player option in 2016

ET – $6.7 mil; Restricted FA 8.7 mil Cap Hold in 2015

Hawes – $6.5 mil; Unrestricted Free Agent in 2015

Lavoy – $3.1 mil; Unrestricted Free Agent I’m 2015

Moultrie – $1.1 mil; 1.2 mil team option

Going into next off-season, Philadelphia would have $43.2 million committed to these 6 players.  Holiday will be a restricted free agent and assume that he signs for 5 years and $40 million and counts for $7 million against the cap in 2014, giving Philly about $8 million in cap space for free agents

Would Bynum, Holiday, Turner, Thad, Hawes, Lavoy, Moultrie along with $7.8 million in cap space, a partial mid level exception and min salary veterans win an NBA title in 2013-2014?

If Philly only signs players to one year deals next off-season, the 2014-2015 roster will be: Bynum, Thad and Holiday who will be owed $35.2 million giving the 76ers about $23 million in cap space for 2015.  It will be even less if Evan Turner is resigned.

The notable free agents that year and how old they will be to start the season

Kyle Lowry-28-PG

Stuckey-28-PG/SG

Monta Ellis-29-PG/SG

Kobe-38-SG

Deng-29-SF

Granger-31-SF

Humphries-29-PF

Andrei Kirilenko-33-SF/PF

Marion-36-SF/PF

Dirk-36-PF

Lavoy-25-PF

Spencer Hawes-26-PF/C

Pau Gasol-35-PF/C

Tiago Splitter-29-PF/C

Gortat-30-C

 

I don’t see how Philly can build a championship team with $23 million (or less if Turner is resigned) and that list of notable free agents.

That’s the next 3 years 76er fan.  It’s possible he becomes worth the money but Bynum would need to elevate his game to Dwight Howard level.  There is no reason to think that is possible, as Bynum is great but Howard is All-Time great.  As much as it sucks to hear, Bynum is not the savior of the franchise.  He is a great player who unfortunately, will be significantly overpaid.  In today’s NBA, it’s extremely tough to win with overpaid players competing against the Lebron; Durant and Howard’s on the NBA.  Bynum makes too much money; but he isn’t the only big in the NBA who does

Bynum is going to get his, but the question remains: will Holiday, Turner or Thad develop into a game changer before another 3+ years of .500 basketball have come and gone?

I look forward to reading everyone’s thoughts on this article.  For simplicity sake; I didn’t write a thorough statistical breakdown of every player that I mentioned above.  If you disagree with a player I mention, it’s in the best interest of discussion purposes that more than the eyeball test is used as your reason for thinking that parts of my article are wrong; please cite statistics in your arguments.


 
 
 

45 Responses to “MOST BANG FOR THE BUCK ??”

  1. Big Matt
    7. September 2012 at 13:08

    Lol Nik Vucevic is more valuable than Bynum?

  2. Gary
    7. September 2012 at 13:36

    You say the 76ers are stuck in no mans land. We’ve ban stuck in no mans land for the last decade, and if we didn’t make this more we still would be stuck in no mans land.

    If we don’t pay Bynum at the end of the year we can go get many of the guys you say “is more valuable” than Bynum.

    But something that your not talking about is how dangerous a player Bynum is to other teams. Doc said he only worries about the Bynimal in the post and no other center. Players who are special and can take a team over get paid the big bucks, and now the sixers have a guy who can do that.

    I think your just mad cuz the 76ers got rid of Dre.

  3. Steve J
    7. September 2012 at 13:37

    Steve,

    I am a big stats guy, but every one of your article smells like someone who can only read and has never watched a basketball game. Games and championships are won with star players. Lebron James, for example, is actually massively underpaid given the value he adds to a franchise. Lavoy Allen, Spencer Hawes and 7.5 mm in cap space for an average player is NOT EVEN CLOSE to being more valuable than Bynum. The reason for this is replaceability. You can replace average players, you can’t replace building blocks. The NBA is a league of stars and there are very few of them. Your list is truly laughable.

  4. brian
    7. September 2012 at 13:55

    bring back Iverson

  5. Adam
    7. September 2012 at 14:04

    wow…. deandre jordan? anderson varejo? javale mcgee? amir johnson? ilyasova? etc…. cmon man…. have the common decency to leave the role players off your list.

    the NBA isnt a bargain league when u talk about stars…. you cant have a team of really good role players and expect to win. you will see it in denver when theyre a 6th seed and lose in the 1st rd of the playoffs… we saw it during the entire andre iguodala era in philly.

    id rather pay andrew bynum 20mil than anderson vareijo at the minimum…. because it gives u the better chance to win basketball games.

  6. Oscar
    7. September 2012 at 14:13

    Steve, why are always so pessimistic?

  7. Tehy
    7. September 2012 at 14:36

    Most of those players don’t have a massively valuable skill, which bynum has in spades:Creating offense.
    Tyson Chandler: Rolls to the rim, that’s about it.
    Kevin Love: Well, he’s a power forward. But he is better.

    Al Horford Never seen too much of him, don’t think he’s great at it either, but good. Still, great midrange.

    Kevin Garnett: There’s something to be said for Age, KG is old. I watched him, and honestly, the age does seem to be stopping him from taking down players he should be able to crush. Twice in a row now, players that were good defensively,but still 6*9, were able to lock him down in the playoffs.
    Blake Griffin —Rookie deals are sort of an unfair comparison, since you can’t really acquire them AND they’re unfairly priced. Blake’s also weak on D and a PF, but yeah, maybe better.

    Joakim Noah — No offense at all.
    DeAndre Jordan — Don’t even make me laugh. No offense and kind of dumb on defense too.
    JaVale McGee — This i might admit. Still kind of a dumbass.
    Tim Duncan: There’s a reason pop is always resting him.

    Anderson Verajao — NO. OFFENSE.

    Serge Ibaka — Still a PF, i guess he could play some center. Alright face-up game, nothing too great though. Bites on pump fake FTW.
    Ryan Anderson — Fine, if you want a PF that can only rebound and spot-up.
    Ersan Illyasova — Never actually seen him play. Possibly better?

    Amir Johnson — Same thing here, but definitely not a center.
    Marcus Camby — He’s FORTY. FORTY. And STILL no offense. Not

    The problem is, actual creators of offense are sort of at a premium. Considering that the sixers had a pretty big problem with this, unless you think nick young is fixing that problem (At least he makes a higher PERCENT of long, contested twos?), it’s not like they will suddenly solve it. Who are you going to bring in with that money that can create some offense and force double teams? (I’m ignoring the star players you mentioned, you’re not getting Blake or Love unless you trade away everything you have.) I guess you could argue Kyle Lowry, but then it’s… Old kobe and gasol, Old dirk, Semi-old Kirilenko, and… maybe Gortat, but he’d have to improve)

    Bottom line: You’re saying, we’d have more cap room, but from your description, i can’t see a better use then Bynum.

  8. jack
    7. September 2012 at 15:05

    Toll,
    its pretty clear you don’t watch enough basketball. Your list of players more valuable is absurd in so many ways. Bynum brings so much more to the table then you actually make out. If you wouldve watched the sixers playoff series against boston you would of noticed how well the team played except in one facet of the game. Interior defense was the sixers achillies along with half court offense two problems bynum solves instantly. The game when brandon bass dropped like 27 and was dunking on players like he was dwight howard never happpens. You might not understand this but the sixers success last year came from producing turnovers and running the floor and we kept that core of players responsible for that style intact. we traded our best player but we got a 24 year old stud. Bynum will love touching the ball in every halfcourt set and he will love starting the break. your numbers dont touch this at all. the games always been about substance and stylve and your point about him leaving for new orleans is a joke. they arnt nearly big enough a club to keep all those players much less resign them to the contracts they want.

  9. joynder
    7. September 2012 at 15:55

    Noah averaged 10-12 pts and 4 offensive rebounds per game on 52% (57% ts) the last couple of years, good for a pretty awesome ORTG of 120. Not as good as Bynum on offense but still a very valuable contributor on that end. Garbage and hustle buckets count as much on the scoreboards as fadeaways and slick post moves.

    Varejao put in 11 pts and 4.4 orebs on 51% last year too.

  10. bk
    7. September 2012 at 16:23

    Steve Toll,

    The only player on the list of big men better than bynum is Kevin Love. There is a reason we are giving bynum a year here. To show us if he is a franchise player. if not, we let him go and have a ton of cap space. if he is a franchise player and superstar, he will always be worth the amount of money. what you don’t understand is that stats are very abstract. To have an actual perspective of the game, you have to watch them. Please respond to this post, since I’m interested in hearing what you think.

  11. Adam
    7. September 2012 at 16:36

    i think the only reason they let toll post is because he pisses people off… he obviously has nothing constructive to say because his blogs are insane and show no knowledge of basketball or the NBA.

    but, people read what he writes and we comment because hes an idiot….

    ugh.

  12. BK
    7. September 2012 at 16:53

    Steve Toll,

    What you don’t understand is that stats are very general and abstract. You can’t passionately defend topics based on stats, because the best way to make judgments is to watch the actual games. Please give me feedback, because I would like to hear what you think about this.

  13. Pete
    7. September 2012 at 16:57

    Dude. He’s the best offensive center in the league. He’s 24. And he still managed to score 19 ppg with Kobe chucking indiscriminately and Pau as the second option. On a team where he is the undisputed best player, it would not at all be unreasonable to see his production rise by a good margin. He’s worth the money. He’s from the tri-state area. He’s gonna resign. If someone told you, “Hey kid, I’m gonna give you an extra year and 20 million on a new contract, make you the face of the franchise, and you’ll be only an hour from your hometown. How’s that sound?” Are you really gonna say no? Relax with the stereotypical Philly pessimism. It hasn’t gotten us anywhere since Iverson left. Go Sixers!

  14. jim
    8. September 2012 at 01:56

    i cant wait for toll to finally watch nba games this year and realize how dumb his statements are based somely on stats and not how a player impacts a game

  15. Young C
    8. September 2012 at 02:29

    Steve Toll – Penny wise and pound foolish. Saying role players like Birdman, Amir Johnson, and Pachulia are more valuable than Bynum, is like saying an associates degree is more valuable than a PhD or Doctorate. An associates costs less to acquire and you could hire a bunch of associates for the price of one Dr., however it would be stupid to say that three or four associates could replace the Dr. Having a doctorate also gives you the potential to have a much higher paying job and a better career in the long-run. Sure, its possible that someone with an associates will outperform their degree as well as its possible that the Dr will underperform. However, until someone proves you right or wrong, you cant assume that either will happen. You have to assume you will get close to your money’s worth. Also, other highly qualified people will be more likely to want to work for and with the Dr. then to work with someone with an associates. By the way, you need to get over this “Thad is a small forward” thing. He has never shown he could play the position on the NBA level, which is why he has been placed as a stretch forward his whole career. When he gets a handle and an outside jumper, then you say he should be a SF. You cant just look at his body type and compare him to similar body types and say he should be a small forward, which is what you did in “The Thad Question”. You could argue that he should have been given more time to work through the growing pains at the SF position earlier in his career, however that would have meant losing more games, and unfortunately rebuilding wasn’t the previous coaches’ priority. At this point in his career, his SF ship has pretty much passed and you need to get over it.

  16. jojoba
    8. September 2012 at 07:32

    Toll, your trying to be an extreme Howard Eskin type of writer but it is not working. You think people will follow you if you write ridiculous articles. Your wrong. And your a hypocrite also. You couldn’t stand players like Igoudala (wanting him to get traded), meeks, and Lou Williams through your writings last basketball season and now you want them back or you think the trade was foolish?????? You have been writing the world of Iggy and Williams this past summer.

    Don’t tell me to include statistics in my responses either. But here are some facts: The Sixers played further into the playoffs than the Lakers did last year and a hand full of other “elite teams”.

    The Sixers picked up the 2nd best Center in the League this past summer.

    The Sixers have new owners who show that they want to win unlike the moron who owned the team before.

    The Sixers have one of the best coaches in the league (Oh wait, I think you want us to get rid of him for Van Gundy).

    Now that is all I care about. Not about some old Camby or Chandler.

  17. jojoba
    8. September 2012 at 07:36

    Oh, and by the way, in case you forgot New Orleans lost two All Stars in Chris Paul and David West.

    WHO THE HELL WOULD CHOOSE TO PLAY IN NEW ORLEANS?????? Eric Gordon is only there because he was traded there and he HAS NO CHOICE.

  18. Matt
    8. September 2012 at 08:56

    The number five is the only number I’d look at to confirm Bynum’s value above other centers mentioned. At the end of every game, each team puts their five best players on the court. No team can say, “Hey, we decided to sign three centers with 16 million, who we think are more valuable combined than the massive guy playing for the Sixers, so we’re going to put seven men on the court for the fourth quarter.”

    When healthy, Bynum is the most intimidating offensive center in basketball. Thank you Andre for putting the opposing team’s best wing in a tourniquet for so many years, and thank you 76ers for turning your aging defensive star into one of the top two all-around centers in the league.

  19. Mike
    8. September 2012 at 09:05

    Dwight Howard? An All Time Great??? Im an Orlando Transplant from Philly and have been to numerous MAgic games! Dwight Howard is NOT better than Andrew Bynum! Swap Dwight and Andrew on their respective teams last year (like they just basically did) and compare numbers! Dont forget that Dwight was a #1 option in Orlando as Andrew was maybe #3 in LA. Dwight NOW will have to play with a ball hog in Kobe Bryant AND Gasol so realistically, how many touches will Dwight see? Andrew will now be a #1 option in Philly to showcase his MUCH greater offensive skill than Dwight. Comparing defense and rebounding, its about even between the 2! Also, Andrew is Bigger, longer and taller than Dwight… I NEVER get how people rave over dwight howard like hes the 2nd coming of Shaq!

  20. Sloetry
    8. September 2012 at 09:45

    Andrew Bynum is the second best centre in the league. The best offensively. What he does when in constant double teams will be key. It’s a no brainer that the Sixers made the move they did. As for this website… the worse it’s got, the more people comment, so they think that’s a good thing.

  21. Eric
    8. September 2012 at 11:52

    Yet another article making claims without supporting evidence. You never even stated what metrics you used to determine each player’s “value.”

    You also assume that every player’s production increases linearly with an increase in minutes. This isn’t baseball. Players don’t shoot and rebound in a bubble with no one else around them. Player X putting up 12 and 5 in 18 minutes a game is not going to put up 24 and 10 in 36 minutes a game. That’s why the NBA is a star-driven league, and is what makes Bynum so valuable.

  22. Steve Toll
    8. September 2012 at 13:40

    Adam,

    The reason Denver didn’t beat the Lakers in the playoffs last year comes down to 1 thing. Al Harrington played 23 mpg per game against LAL, when those minutes should have gone to McGee (9pts, 9reg, 3blks in 26mpg) and Faried (10pts, 10reb, 1blk in 26mpg). Harrington is terrible and George Karl isn’t a good coach.

    I look at basketball differently than many people, I am open and honest about how I feel about the game along with the decision making of the 76ers. As a fan, I love the 76ers. They are my team, it doesn’t mean I have to agree with their decision making. There is a growing list of my writing on Philadunkia and in a few months, my trial by fire will begin.

    Steve J,
    You saying that Bymum is more valuable than Hawes+Lavoy+7.5 million simply does not make it true.

    Jack,
    It seems that you basically missed the point of the article. Bynum did nothing wrong, it’s the fact that all of his peers make far less than he does and all are tied up for a few years which is an issue. The point of the article is look at the list of guys I mentioned and the millions less they are paid, what would you rather have that or Bynum? The answer is very easy when you do the research. Go look up the numbers instead of giving a knee jerk reaction

    BK,
    I think that you likely underestimate how much you (and everyone) miss when watching a basketball game. How would you explain to a blind person who is the best player? Bynum is absolutely a star, I’m not disagreeing. There are just a lot of guys I’d prefer to have given the extra money I’d have to spend. Furthermore, the list of guys I have Bynum as more valuable than is a list of very good-elite players. So there is a balance.

    Tehy,
    Go look up some numbers and get back to me.

    Pete,
    Considering that Howard has been a better offensive player than Bynum every year they hav both been in the NBA, I must disagree with you.

    Your point about being a local kid and the extra money really worked out well for Cleveland, so I can’t argue with you on that.

  23. Teddy
    8. September 2012 at 13:53

    First time I ever read a toll article, but it’s clear he doesn’t know basketball. It’s like he’s saying it’s smarter to roll with lemons when the sixers just invested in a piped out caddy truck(bynum). The dude was averaging like 25 and 12 when the lakers was banged up and he was gettin more touches. The sixers have more shooters then the lakers, which means he will get even more space. Pick your poison, man up against bynum which not many can do or double him and get torched by the likes of j rich, d wright, swaggy p, and jrue h. And who was the lakers sharp shooter besides kobe? And he gets a coach like doug collins that puts him on a top three defensive team. But he’ll wanna go to new orleans ha ha. You serious?

  24. Lennix
    8. September 2012 at 13:55

    how’d you get this job? who pays you? i wish i could be paid to be a pessimist that reads almost meaningless statistics.
    the only part of this article i agreed with was the rip for j rich and Love over Bynum, otherwise its pretty lame you’re allowed on this staff. go write for the kings or something. i seriously cant finish your articles they are so stupid. i rather read the comments where people just laugh at you, i get the jist of your articles though basically every comment posted. seriosuly i much rather read your “followers” comments than your rubbish. im getting sick of it, i come to this site and im always let down by this particle writer. pretty much a waste of my time, im done with toll articles.

  25. Jon
    8. September 2012 at 14:36

    Like many others have said, you can’t just determine basketball based on stats. You cannot tell me last year you watched the Lakers play the Bucks and you thought Ersan Illyasova was better than Andrew Bynum. In the words of Stephen A. Smith “That is just blasphemous!!!” Could you give me, based on whatever statistical research you use, your top twenty most valuable players? I’d be very interested to see who they are.

  26. T. Martin
    8. September 2012 at 15:31

    Steve are you sure your last name isn’t Troll?
    You really don’t get it. This article is ridiculous. Bynum is a legit 20 and 10 post player. Something the 6ers haven’t had in forever and a day and you’re trying to tell me that you’d rather have Martin Gortat? Bynum is an All Star who WILL (and already has) sold tickets. They’ll sell merchandise with his name on it. They’ll have other guys, hopefully All Stars interested in playing with him and Jrue and you’re pining for guys about to age out of the league in Marcus Camby, Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan?

    Tyson Chandler — is old. productive but old.
    Kevin Love — is a beast but I don’t think he was available.
    Al Horford — here’s a guy I like but, he’s not Bynum.
    Kevin Garnett — old and hopefully Bynum sends him flying with an elbow to the chin every time they play the Celtics.
    Blake Griffin — what he makes is irrelevant. The Clippers aren’t trading him besides he’s a giant pussy.
    Joakim Noah — I’d take Bynum seven days a week and twice on Sunday over the ugly son of a French born tennis player.
    DeAndre Jordan — he’s overpaid.
    JaVale McGee — he’s mentally handicapped and half-hearted.
    Tim Duncan — older than dirt. not a player the 6ers could build around. Bynum can be to Philly what Dwayne Wade is to Miami. The guy other all-stars want to play with.
    Anderson Verajao — other than the fact he looks like Chaka Khan’s illegitimate son… no comment.
    Serge Ibaka — is not going anywhere.
    Ryan Anderson — would have been a good get but still not a building block like Bynum is.
    Ersan Illyasova — not selling tickets. not better than Bynum.
    Amir Johnson — if he’s part of your argument you’ve lost the argument.
    Marcus Camby — old. see Amir Johnson.

  27. T. Martin
    8. September 2012 at 15:39

    The worst part is your condescending tone..

    “There isn’t one player on that list that a knowledgeable NBA person wouldn’t take over Bynum when you factor in the money. Is there any doubt that each of these players will be more productive than Bynum when you factor in how much more Bynum is paid?”

    Gee professor I’m fascinated. Thanks for taking time away from running an NBA team to enlighten the fools who follow this team. Get. over. yourself.

  28. Josh
    9. September 2012 at 00:29

    I have had enough of you Steve toll. You must be a complete idiot to think some of these players are more valuable than bynum. In the NBA, its about allstars. The teams that win championships have a collection of them. Certainly, Bynum is an all star, will fill the seats in Philly, adds major energy in the front court they’ve never had before, and will bring this team to a whole new level. Hes not worth it???? Goodbye philadunkia.Hope you find some new writers that are actually competent and know basketball like Jeff mcmenamin.

  29. BK
    9. September 2012 at 14:59

    How dare you say George Karl is not a good coach. He has a thousand wins and took a team to the finals. Sometimes it’s better to bring younger players up slower and he understands that. Don’t start criticizing HOF coaches.

    Also you don’t understand that mediocre players won’t win championships. Your dream teams would be just as mediocre as the teams the pas couple years.

  30. BK
    9. September 2012 at 16:57

    Also I don’t think you understood my point about stats. You can’t stubbornly defend your position based on stats. A blind person would better understand a game if someone gave him a good description of each play than you do. You should work on ESPNs first take with skip bayless. Anyway, I’d like to hear what you think about my two posts, although I know you’ll defend them with very general stats.

  31. tehy
    9. September 2012 at 20:26

    Yeah,not gonna lie, i just checked your numbers. The problem is, the only people that were better than bynum that you listed were not really centers, more like PFs.As for the rest? They can do a lot of stuff, but they can’t really post up and create offense, except for garnett and duncan, who are underpaid because they’re old. And maybe al horford, i won’t lie about that part.

    Andrew bynum is a FREE double team on almost any team. FREE DOUBLE TEAM! Face it, creating offense on your own is expensive. That’s how this league operates. What will you do with the rest of the money? Chances are, you’ll get other players that do nice stuff but can’t create offense, and it’s like last year all over again.

  32. Jon
    10. September 2012 at 00:17

    “There isn’t one player on that list that a knowledgeable NBA person wouldn’t take over Bynum when you factor in the money. Is there any doubt that each of these players will be more productive than Bynum when you factor in how much more Bynum is paid?”

    Yeeeeaaaah…That’s why numerous teams were trying to get Bynum this off season. But then again, Steve Toll and his stats are smarter than actual NBA owners.

  33. John H
    10. September 2012 at 00:29

    Bynum is the 13th highest paid player in the NBA, according to thehoopdoctors.com. Of those who get paid more, I would take Bynum over all of them, except 4 (James, Howard, Paul, Williams). There are several factors that go into why I feel that way – age, skill, position, stats, and etc. To me, Bynum is the 6th best player to start building a team around in the NBA, behind James, Williams, Paul, Howard, Durant, and Westbrook. Rose would be in there as well, but he is a question mark to me now with his injury. So with that being said, twenty million is what Bynum is worth.
    I hope the 76ers somehow gets another quality starter, even if it means trading both ET and Thad. We will be just above .500 next year if the lineup stays the same. We are better than last year, but so are several other teams in the east.

  34. Pete
    10. September 2012 at 00:35

    So scoring one extra point on a team where you are the FOCAL point of the offense makes Howard a better offensive player? Have you watched this guy? He still has a mediocre post game at best. It took him 8 years to eclipse 20 ppg getting force fed the ball on a team full of snipers. He’s still a horrendous free throw shooter and isn’t the dominant player Shaq was to justify being that big of a liability. You can’t hack-a-Bynum. As for the LeBron remark, players move for money first and winning second. He couldn’t win in Cleveland because the FO couldn’t get a real team around him in 8 YEARS and Florida has no state income tax so the pay cut he took wasn’t really a pay cut. Win win. Seems like he made the right decision. Bynum isn’t in that situation. He’s now on a young, talented playoff team making massive strides to improve their weaknesses. And like Howard on the Magic, he will be the alpha dog surrounded by 4 37-38% 3 point shooters. With a better post game, free throw shooting, and increased touches, how exactly is he not going to improve on his previous numbers in Philly? Oh, but wait. You’d rather have Varejao because of the money. I’ll take the automatic 20/10 that I can build a team around while you’re still looking for him in your cost benefit analysis.

  35. Tehy
    10. September 2012 at 20:41

    So let’s say that andrew bynum ISN’T worth it. Who IS? Let’s go from your list of FAS.

    First off: Old.
    Kobe, Marion, Dirk, Pau.(Also, Dirk’s getting an extension.)

    Secondly, can’t create their own shot:
    Deng,Humphries, Lavoy, Gortat. (Let’s see him without Nash.)

    Thirdly:Might be good THEN.:
    Spencer, Tiago, Stuckey, Kirilenko. (Not that old, but it MIGHT be old enough.)

    Now for the rest:
    Monta Ellis-29-PG/SG
    About Bynum’s offense, less defense/brains. An average SG plus Bynum is better than Ellis plus average center.

    Granger-31-SF
    I have no idea. This might be worth it. Although, since you think thad’s supposed to be an SF… by your calculations this makes no sense anyhow.

    And…
    Kyle Lowry. He’s the only one i agree with, but since you already assumed that you signed Holiday to a five-year deal, how is that even working out? I guess you could sign Lowry, then trade holiday, but trading a 5-year deal isn’t the easiest thing in the world, and usually replacing a well-established, still-productive member of a team is… awkward, to say the least. This all presupposing he wants to come to a team with such a depleted roster. You could not resign/match holiday or trade early, but that’s really risky.

  36. Steve Toll
    11. September 2012 at 00:51

    Teddy,

    I am no disputing that Andrew Bynum is good at basketball, re read the article.
    Philadelphia will not be a top 3 defensive team this season. Also if you combined the Sixers and Hornets, the 4 best players would be Bynum, Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon and The BROW. That is plenty incentive to leave without even factoring in the partying aspect of NO

    Jon,
    Ersan Illyasova is 24 and very good. If you read this article, you will see me list of top 50 or so most productive NBA players season; http://philadunkia.com/?p=6956

    Young C,
    You actually said “at this point in his career, the SF has passed Thad”
    LOL, Thad is 4 months older than Evan Turner

    Jojoba,
    Everything you said is wrong. IMO Lou+Meeks > Holiday+ Turner. I stated that Iggy should be traded if they were going through a youth movement aka planned on being bad for a few seasons. Bynum was the 8th most productive Big Man in the NBA last season and Doug Collins is not an elite coach.
    You are very high on the owners, how do you feel about the team still not hiring a GM? Furthermore, before we got Bynum and JRich’s terrible deal; this was an atrocious offseason.
    Davis West hasn’t been an all star since like 09 and he blew his knee out in 2011. He was a free agent and went to the highest bidder.
    CP3 was turned into The BROW, Eric Gordon, Al Farouq Aminu (meh) and Austin Rivers (meh). That’s a better haul than Denver got for Melo, ORL got for Dwight, PHO got for Nash, TOR got for Bosh, CLE got for Lebron
    What point were you trying to make about New Orleans?

    Matt, Mike and Sloetry,
    Dwight Howard is the best offensive and defensive center in Basketball. Bynum was not a top 3 center last year in regards to production. Howard is an All-Time great, Bynum s just great.

    T Martin,
    You were one heck of a player at UT but not the brightest. What player on that list would you take over Bynum when you factor in $?

    Josh,
    Winning isn’t tied to All-Stars, its tied to Hall of Fame players and playing the right guys. I’d like to know why you have such distaste for this article? Please keep reading Philadunkia, regardless of how you feel about my articles as there are lots of good ones posted that aren’t written by me.

    BK,
    Read this wagesofwins article, http://wagesofwins.com/2012/08/30/ari-caroline-helps-dre-explain-why-george-karl-is-horrible/

    Jon,
    Notice how there are lots of teams are bad every year, it’s as much to do with the GM as the players. Philly got Bynum and a terrible contract in J-Rich, the team is also essentially capped out the next couple years.

    Pete,
    The 76ers are young but they also are NOT “very talented”. Factor in that they are essentially capped out the next few seasons without any draft picks and well, you do the math.
    Philly was the only team in the NBA last season who had 4 guys played 1600+ minutes, hit 1+ 3pt shot a game at 37%+

    Gentleman of Philadunkia,

    My trial by fire begins on Halloween

  37. Fred
    11. September 2012 at 03:30

    This article angers me.

    Most of the guys he lists aren’t even centers.

    It also seems like he doesn’t understand that you can only play 5 guys at a time in basketball. Talking about combining 3 players together to get the production of 1, it’s all theory nonsense that can’t hold water. Hawes+Lavoy+7.5 million dollar player is better than Bynum??? Can you even imagine a GM proposing that trade?

    The best way to digest this article is that Steve Toll probably liked the way Orlando ended up in the Howard/Bynum trade, and then immediately disregard his opinion. I mean, they got like 8 cheap dudes!

  38. Steve Toll
    11. September 2012 at 18:45

    Pete,

    Bynum has had 28 games including playoffs the past 3 seasons where he has scored 20+ points and 10+ rebounds.

    Dwight Howard had 24 just last season.

    Griffin, Durant, Cousins, Lebron, Love had more 20-10 games last year.

    Bynum had the same amount of 20-10 games as Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, David Lee, and Marcin Gortat this past season.

    It seems to me that Bynum isn’t a automatic as you claim

    Tehy,
    The list of free agents Is actually for the 2014 offseason, Philly is pretty close to capped out once they resign Holiday next season unless they get rid of Jrich or Kwame, and assuming that Bynum resigns. Also the team has no 1st rd pick for 3 years if the team makes the playoffs this season.

    Fred,
    Yes, Lavoy+Hawes+7.5 million in cap space > Bynum but only if you want to win basketball games.

    Orlando got more for Howard than CLE got for Lebron, TOR got for Bosh, and PHX got for Nash. They did terrible but compared to some other teams with superstars, ORL did pretty good. The insane thing that I will never understand is why ORL traded away Ryan Anderson. That was the worst move of the offseason.

  39. Joe
    11. September 2012 at 18:55

    Steve,
    You honestly think Lou+Meeks > Turner+Holiday???????

    There’s no team in the league that would take Lou and meeks over Turner and Holiday

  40. Jon
    12. September 2012 at 01:53

    Steve,

    A large majority of people thought this was a good deal for the Sixers except for you. To say every “knowledgeable NBA person” would chose someone on that list is beyond a reach. It’s narcissistic to think that that you are somehow smarter than everyone else in this regard.

    Stats are great. They have a purpose and sometimes reveal things that we don’t often see. But they can’t show everything. Bynum is a beast and everyone in the league knows it. That’s why you build a team around him and pay him a max contract.

  41. BK
    12. September 2012 at 15:18

    Steve Toll,

    As I predicted, you used stats to defend that George Karl is a bad coach. I guess that’s all you can do since you can’t really use stats to bring down my argument about how it’s better to bring younger players up slower. I suppose I can never really bring down any of your arguments since you’re too stubborn. It’s a shame because you seem like a pretty smart dude. Anyway, I’m going too stop commenting on these blogs, since I know you won’t accept any of my points. I would like to hear your response to my second post, since you only responded to my first one.

  42. Realists Lakers Fan
    13. September 2012 at 10:53

    The funniest sentence i read was “How would you explain to a blind person who is the best player?” after that i stopped reading the comments.

    As u can tell by my name,im a Lakers Fan. Though i Am happy we got Dwight I am a bit sad that we traded a player that we groomed since we drafted him. I am looking forward to watching philly, just cause of bynum. He has all the tools, but lacked interest in LA. Prolly cause he wasnt getting the touches he prolly deserved.

    In saying that, i expect his numbers to jump across all categories for a centre.

    Steve TBH u cant compare Bynum to role players. Now Bynum is the #1 option he will get his. Maybe u should have waited to write this article after this season. I think u will be eating ur own words.

  43. Adam
    15. September 2012 at 12:52

    Lou and meeks better than turner and holiday? WTF? You just lost all credibility.

    Lou and meeks (and thad) were the main reasons why we were so horrific in close games last season because of their terrible TERRIBLE defense and lou was especially responsible because of his beyond bad shot selection and ball domination…. Lou lost a playoff game against boson by himself….

  44. James
    25. September 2012 at 02:03

    Steve,

    Being a stats guy is great… as long as you watch the games. There is NO ONE in the known universe (outside of you) who cares even a little about basketball and would take lavoy, hawes, and a 7.5 mill player (basically replacement level) over a star (potential superstar) level player. If Bynum averages 22 and 12 with 2.5 blocks in 36 mins this year, will you admit your geeking out over the numbers is excessive? Basketball cannot be broken down into numbers only like baseball can. Secondly, I happen to agree with you on Thad, THERE is a case where the stats match the eyeball test. Luckily for both of us, Thad and Doug apparently agree, and Thad will be getting run at the 3 this year. Last, your point about NO is poor because you have no idea how much money the new owner will allow them to spend. Realize in that size market it’s going to be hard for them to make money, do you think the owner is just going to shell out and take the losses? I mean the guy is obviously a good businessman or he wouldn’t have had the $$$ to buy both the Saints and the Hornets… doesn’t seem to me good businessmen like to take losses very often.

  45. JerseeJerry55
    25. September 2012 at 13:00

    Toll I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You sir are an idiot. You have no credibility. Have you vere watched a Sixers game??? I may have been a Sixers apologist for guys such as Iggy, Elton, and Evan. But at least I have a basis for an argument. Do the city of Philadelphia, and it’s loyal KNOWLEDGABLE fan base and go root for the Wizards, the Rockets, or the Timberwolves. Cities that have no idea what it is to have a legitimate NBA franchise. Because you obviously have no idea what you are writing about the Sixers.
    JerseeJerry55

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