QUESTIONABLE MOVES

Posted by: Steve Toll
11/03/12 5:17 pm EST

Joshua Harris and his crew should just sell this team right now.  The recent news of the Jrue Holiday extension and the team picking up Evan Turner’s 4th year option becoming a reality, a feeling of darkness should have begun creeping out like zombies at the Eastern State Penitentary. 

This team has absolutely no idea what they are doing and the front office is setting up the fans of the 76ers for many seasons of a Gus Frerotte-like series of  head banging concussions without help in sight.  Further proof of that is the recent news of the 7-6 hiring analytical expert Aaron Barzilai.  Coincidentally, this comes after Dileo and DC spent the offseason lighting the team’s future championship equity on fire and locking the team into a no win salary cap situation.

A day late and a few million dollars short is how to best describe the hiring of the new analytic guy for the 76ers.  Most impressive about the whole thing was Barzilai convincing the front office of his ability to help this cap strapped team in the future. 

 

Contractually, Thad, Hawes, Lavoy, Moultrie, Maalik are good value contracts. ET and Jrich are untradeable. Kwame has no Value. Dorell and SwaggyP are both expiring and the extensions for Holiday and potentially Bynum eat up the rest of the cap space.  Add in a lack of future draft picks and there is nothing an analytic guy can do in that regard.  The rotation is basically set and DC runs that from his head and gut anyway.   Here is what Barzilai is going to say, “play ET, SwaggyP and Kwame as little as possible”

The question is, what’s with deciding to have the dog and pony show right now?

Evan Turner’s team option being picked up was a move only a delusional fanbase, front office and ownership group could actually rationalize.  Let’s assume that Evan Turner has the season that fellow Philadunkia writer, Jeff Mcmenamin, and many others predict/hope he has.  That would be something like 15pts, 5 assists, 400 defensive rebounds per game while having a still subpar but improved True Shooting percentage of 50%, compared to his 2 year average of 48%.  Let’s also throw in 2 combined steals and blocks, along with above average defense over 33 minutes per game.  That would put ET as a slightly above average NBA player.

What would that fetch on the open market assuming that the team didn’t pick up his option for 2012-2013?   

After each of those seasons here is what each player was paid: Thaddeus Young 5 yr 43 million, Ryan Anderson 4yr 32 million and Ersan Ilyasova 5yr 40 million.  We can safely presume that Evan Turner would get a 4 year 36 million dollar deal plus incentives. 

That is 9 million dollars per season. His contract would pay ET around 8 million dollars that first season.

Assuming that Kwame Brown is traded along with $3,000,000 cash (teams can send up to $3 mil in cash per season in trades according to the new CBA) to a team this offseason with essentially nothing in return and Bynum signs for a max deal, the 76ers would have 2.7 million dollars to use in free agency along with a partial mid level exception and the ability to sign an infinite number of minimum salary deals. 

Now subtract the extra 1.2 million that Evan Turner is (hypothetically) being paid because he was resigned for 4yr $36 million this upcoming offseason and that leaves $1.5 million for free agency. That would allow the team to add a player like Marco Bellinelli. 

Even if the team magically was able to spend $2.7 million on a free agent, the team would be buying someone on the level of Kwame Brown who will be worth zero in the playoffs to a “Contender” like Philadelphia.  What that means is, there is essentially zero difference between paying Evan Turner $6.7 million and up to almost 10 million dollars in 2012-2013 if Evan Turner becomes the player that many hope he becomes.  That’s assuming his option wasn’t picked up and he suddenly became a real NBA player of value.  Now prepare to have your mind blown…………..

Imagine a world where Evan Turner continues to be the Evan Turner who is not a good NBA player and his team option had not been picked up.  The difference between paying him 6.7 million dollars and 0 isn’t 6.7 million dollars.  The difference is 6.7 million + 2.7 million for a grand total of $9,400,000 and some change.  BOOM.  Now think about that.

Someone is likely going to put in the comments, “Well, what if a team offers Evan Turner 9.5 million dollars per season? We lost him for nothing, Troll”

Let me respond, Turner isn’t worth 9.5 million per season even if he has the type of 2012-2013 that was mentioned previously.  There is an absurd Bravado with teams and their infatuation with players they drafted as though they are the be all and end all of NBA players.  There is free agency every year, there is an NBA draft every year.  If a team wants to give ET a deal for an extra 6-10 million over the life of the deal, C’est la vie, he can be replaced.  Heck, he could be replaced for 6.7 million dollars next offseason even with the hypothetical season above.

What this team decided is, let’s take all the risk and hope/pray that Turner becomes average this season and if he is bad, screw ourselves out of the opportunity to pay a guy 9.4 million dollars next offseason if Turner doesn’t work out.  I’ve known that for months and many readers (and I appreciate all of you, regardless of our differences of opinion) I believe will acknowledge that even coming from me, there is sound logic about that.  Unfortunately, it got worse….


 
 
 

66 Responses to “QUESTIONABLE MOVES”

  1. Steve Toll
    3. November 2012 at 17:35

    There is a part 2, which will be released soon about Jrue’s extension

  2. Gary Hoffman
    3. November 2012 at 17:43

    I think your just upset because your name was thought to be in the running for the analytical position but Aaron Barzilai got it.
    This article might have something to do with you being a little sour.

    I don’t know the guy so I won’t say if he’s truly an expert or not. But I feel 10x more better about this team this year and the next few years than I have the previous 6 years.

  3. JC
    3. November 2012 at 18:27

    Perhaps the one who doesn’t know what they are doing is not the front office, but rather you. You take a shot at the Holiday extension in your opening yet never mention it again in your article. The extension was quite a good one, especially if he continues to grow as a player. If you were that much smarter than the front office, I would imagine you would be working for a NBA team by now, but your knee-jerk reactions to players you don’t like would never work in the real world.

  4. tom
    3. November 2012 at 18:28

    i have said this before and ill say it again WHY is this guy still writing articles i have never read an article where this guy actually made sense. signing jrue is a great move it had to be done. and picking up turners option is a no brainer. i will agree with you tho i dont think he is going to have a break out year…hopefully im wrong. but you have to pick up that option because he was the number 2 draft pick you need to give him a chance and even if he does avg 12 ppg you pick up his contract and you can use him as trade bait for next year as an expiring contract. and if he does just ok this year you can always trade him before the deadline to some gm thinking hey maybe he just needs a change of scenery. but once again this guy reminds me of the fan in major league 2 who was bashing his team the whole year until finally the wild thing comes out and he jumps back on the bandwagon. soo i am looking forward to the article come may or june when that article comes out.

  5. Ty
    3. November 2012 at 18:30

    This article surprised me a lot. It was very negative writing about my beloved Sixer’s future, and I disagreed with just about every statement Steve Toll made.

    But before I can make a rant against him, I read some of his previou articles. I realized that he makes his assumptions off of stats. I could understand that, being a statistician myself. However, if your reading this Steve, you make too many assumptions and conclusions off of stats. Stats can say a lot about a game, and are rightly being used more by coaches and GMs, but here is the thing about stats. THEY AREEXTREMELY MISLEADING.

    For example, Chris Paul in his 2007-8 had more win shares than MJ did in his 91-92 season, a year he led his team to a championship and was the best player in the world. Paul wasn’t the player in the league that year and didn’t win the championship. Anyway if you read this please respond.

  6. Pat
    3. November 2012 at 22:07

    Wasn’t there news before the season of Steve Toll possibly being hired by the sixers as a statistician? Judging by his evisceration of the front office I’m assuming that didn’t work out? If my assumption is correct…I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a worse case of sour grapes than blasting Aaron Barzilai in your first paragraph. If I’m wrong and you are working for the front office this year let me give you a word of advice…maybe hold off on publicly bashing your new employer. Obviously if you did get the job, it was for your dissenting opinions (since you are apparently the one and only expert on Nba basketball; all of your opinions are dissenting) but you may want to offer your criticism a little more lightly than “lighting the teams future championship equity on fire”. Unless being a know-it-all number crunching blotter pays a lot more than I think it does.

    Philadunkia please get rid of this guy.

  7. Jon
    3. November 2012 at 22:24

    http://www.libertyballers.com/2012/11/2/3588856/76ers-coach-doug-collins-hates-advanced-stats
    In case you haven’t, you should read this.
    Do you want to know what the big secret to winning in this league is? It’s by having superstars. That’s why the Finals last year were between the Thunder and Heat and not the Sixers and Nuggets. You can say all you want about how Andrew Bynum’s contract won’t allow us to go out and spend any money in free agency, or how we don’t have any draft picks for the upcoming year. But I want you to tell me if they had this money or these draft picks who they would add that would be a better player than Andrew Bynum. And yes Steve, I’m sure you’ll give me some answer of a combination of players who at first glance would not be the answer, but with your in-depth analysis would add however many more wins. Sure Bynum has shaky knees, but I would rather take my chances on his knees than Ryan Anderson’s healthy ones, because do you know what we would have with Ryan Anderson? Another middle of the road team. The whole point of this offseason was to get out of mediocrity, and if you’re right and this team sucks, you know I’ll be happy. Because I’d rather have a sucky team that tries to get better, than one that just twiddles its thumbs in the middle of the pack. Steve, the fact of the matter is that to win in this league you need superstars, that’s why the Lakers went after Dwight Howard and Steve Nash, why the Rockets traded there top draft pick for James Harden, why the Heat won the Championship last year, and why the Sixers traded for Andrew Bynum and resigned Jrue Holliday. Stop looking for a secret formula, the recipe is right in front of you.

  8. Fred
    3. November 2012 at 22:55

    “That would be something like 15pts, 5 assists, 400 defensive rebounds per game while having a still subpar but improved True Shooting percentage of 50%, compared to his 2 year average of 48%. Let’s also throw in 2 combined steals and blocks, along with above average defense over 33 minutes per game”

    I like how the offensive numbers is akin to Andre Iguodala’s numbers for the last 2 years and yet…oh, no mention of him or his 15 million this year. I also like how the players he lists are not known for “above average defense.”

    Steve also likes to talk about the cap ramifications of Evan’s extension while including the Jrue extension into the thought process when that’s ridiculous because Jrue’s extension came AFTER the Evan extension. How can Steve blame the front office for Evan’s extension because of how it combines with Jrue’s extension when at the time, Jrue’s didn’t exist yet? Steve just likes to blame blame moan. If he wanted his belly aching to make any sense, he should have put it in his next article’s sure-to-be haterfest about Jrue’s. He blames the front office for extending Evan in 2013-2014 when it didn’t happen yet.

  9. Ross
    4. November 2012 at 00:50

    Why does Philadunkia allow this guy to right for them?

  10. Fu
    4. November 2012 at 01:46

    Well, I think everybody here is trying to make a point on Steve’s general comments and previous article. But let’s stick to this one and more specifically ET’s role and future with the 7-6.
    For once, even coming from Steve…, this makes totally sense to me. Unless of course ET proves Steve wrong during this season, which so far is not going the right way (this is not based on stats but on my watching preseason games an the nuggets game).
    And for the ones who are saying that Philly needs superstars, i guess the team will be more in a position to get another piece closer to superstar than ET with a larger amount of cap space, right?

  11. IQ Ballin'
    4. November 2012 at 01:39

    Basic understanding of basketball doesn’t help in this dilemma, and neither does anything less than a college degree with a job that gives sense to salary. In an enigmatic learning situation especially when the front office and back office change as much as your coaching staff well puzzling fits. The Sixers history to begin with AI taught us that a guy can amaze Sports Center fans every fucking night, score 50, and however you look at it still be a loser. If we believe one player can over dominate the ball then Westbrook is the next AI and he is going to single handedly win a Championship. Westbrook is the exact evolution of AI “The Superguard”. However “The Superguard” is sloppy and isn’t a basketball player or a team player he’s a deuce bag if I’m not accurate. The Sixers business evolution like most NBA teams involves a cycle of basketball players, wealthy individuals who want to own or partner in a NBA team for example MJ, and then the underlings who want to work for an organization like a professional basketball team. Most of the people in this business are new at it even if you have played 19 NBA seasons. Therefore this league is a vacuum for fucking up your pocketbook. Why do player salaries equal diminishing value to the league? It’s because they play for contracts. The WNBA is in its golden years because they put their heart on the floor everyday. They play basketball. The NBA as for basketball has depreciated to an extra long season where players would rather play for a contract than a championship. Basketball doesn’t even start until the playoffs. This problem began when too much power was given to players and taken away from the league executives. College basketball has lost its luster and does not develop players into growing basketball players. This is why we get players like ET who flop then makes millions while the front office for the Sixers is fighting a gorilla they dreamed up in terms of millions to pay players. So what does an organization do but find superstars. Andrew Bynum is a contractual hemorrhage and the dopes we get or sign like Jason Richardson or Kwame Brown are fucking the system. The Sixers will live in the area of below average and just above average to almost above average. As far as holiday being a great guard, ET being a great shooting guard, Thad Young being a lock down defender on any one of the Top five players in the NBA, we have Hawes and Lavoy Allen who don’t work, and a hurt Andrew Bynum who will flop statistically about 90% chance plus he eats all our cap. The ideal perception for a NBA player for its position is in this Modern NBA: PG- 6′-6’6″ extreme quickness, extreme speed, extreme hops, floor general, communicates well, runs sets as well as plays great improvisational basketball, lock down defender in a half-court set, and is score first with the notion of being a “Super Guard”.
    SG- 6’6″ no taller no shorter great quickness, extreme speed, insane hops, refined shooter, plays great improvisational basketball, he’s like two people on the floor defensively(eats up space), aggressive scorer in a half-court set, unstoppable on the break, and is score first with the notion of being a “Super Guard”.
    SF- 6’8″ Long body, great quickness, extreme speed, insane hops, powerful, post game, refined scorer, plays great improvisational basketball, defensively he’s his own team(amazing), aggressive scorer in a half court set, unstoppable on the break, and is score first in good post position or attacking the basket with the notion of being able to be universal fit in any of the 5 positions.
    PF-6’8″-6’11″ Long body with a tree trunk exterior, great quickness, extreme speed, insane hops, very powerful, great post game, stretches to a 20 foot shot, understands spacing and use of a screen anywhere on the court, great pick and roll or pick and pop, good improvisational basketball, rebounds, boxes out, good low block to midrange defender, can post and score on strong side block , weak side block, or hit foul line extended, defensive anchor should be able to cover PF or C and help extended, rotate back to rebound or stop aggressive drives and protect paint and rim.
    C-7′-7″ biggest tree in the forest, quick, good speed, insane hops, most powerful, great post game, stretches to a 15-17 foot shot, understands spacing and use of a screen and weak side and strong side, good pick and roll or pick and pop, good improvisational basketball, no rebound is too much, rarely boxes out but grabs offensive and defensive boards at a high rate, clogs the paint forces guards to change shot or blocks shots, great post scorer can hit shot from foul line, understands rotations plugs the paint plays C dominates if great skilled post player.

  12. Adam
    4. November 2012 at 02:04

    This is the first steve toll article that makes sense.

  13. Steve Toll
    4. November 2012 at 02:53

    Gary,

    I am upset because Dileo and DC lit the teams championship equity on fire. After doing all that and THEN hiring a numbers guy is just a Dog and Pony show. There is no cap flexibility, assuming that Bynum stays. In the off chance that he values winning a championship, he was a 1 year rental. Other than telling Collins, Don’t play ET, SwaggyP, Kwame and Royal, there is the nothing the new analyst can do this season and little else is subsequent years.

    JC,

    Holiday’s extension will be talked about in part 2 of this article.

    Tom,

    NOT picking up the option for ET was the move. The team had Brand’s giant expiring deal and instead used it to resign Lavoy (because they botched his rookie deal), SwaggyP and Kwame, so I have no confidence in the front office. What makes you think that some team is going to give anything of value for a guy who isn’t good either this offseason or next year?
    Re-Read the article, tell me how taking an All Risk and No Reward move with Turner’s option was the right mode

    Ty,

    what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

    Pat,

    This hiring was a dog and pony show. There is nothing for this guy to do for the next few seasons. It was made a few months after it was needed. I actually like what he has done from an analytical standpoint.

    If you agree with the team taking ET’s option up for next season, there is no helping you. Honesty is the best policy and there is no WORSE recipe for success that is having a bunch of yes men. I highly doubt this new relationship lasts past this season unless they totally overpaid the new hire which isn’t beyond the realm of reason when you remember the $ this team paid to Jrue, ET, Swaggy and Kwame.

    Jon,

    My natural inclination is to point you to my response to Ty, but I’ll humor you. I appreciate you telling me that superstars win Championships, good look on that. The team has no draft picks (potentially) for 2 seasons, no first round picks of any potential value on the roster and therefore, in the future the team can’t exceed the salary cap.
    Keep pretending like Ryan Anderson and 10 mil in cap space isn’t superior to Bynum, someone needs to lead that movement.

    The Lakers were gifted Nash, got an upgrade in Howard and OKC made a billy king like trade of James Harden.

    There is a reason it was Philadelphia was the team who got Bynum and none of the reasons are good.

    I’ll get into the Holiday stuff in part 2 but a guy who isn’t a top 20 PG should not be paid 10 million a season especially when a superior option at PG was allowed to walk this offseason for half the money.

  14. MountainDrew
    4. November 2012 at 06:09

    Completely agree with Jon, and I would like to add that even if Jodie Meeks, Matt Barnes, Ryan Anderson and Chris Anderson have more win shares combined than Andrew Bynum, please note that Bynum is ONE player compared to MULTIPLE, and that having just Bynum on the floor grants you four ADDITIONAL players on the floor and on the roster, making the team more effective, resulting into more win shares. Man, am I glad Toll didn’t get the job.

  15. the super villain
    4. November 2012 at 09:37

    While I don’t agree or understand every little detail in this article, I FULLY agree with the overall sentiment that the Sixers have locked themselves into mediocrity for the next bunch of years with their offseason moves.

    Taking JRich in the Bynum deal was terrible and Jrue and Evan’s contracts are terrible. Jrue is a great kid and a nice player, but I cannot imagine him becoming a 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship team.

    Why did they play nice with him? Why didn’t they just let him become a restricted free agent and allow the market to dictate his contract? If we loose him, we loose him, just like Evan Turner, and about 80% of the players in the league, he is replaceable.

    After getting Bynum the goal of the team should have been to keep as much money free as possible this offseason to be able to sign Bynum AND another PROVEN superstar.

  16. Keith
    4. November 2012 at 09:57

    I guess I am in the minority here, but Steve’s part of Turner is spot on. Hopefully we can somehow unload him, which I doubt.

    I do look forward to the piece on Jrue to see if I agree there.

  17. Matt
    4. November 2012 at 10:23

    Steve Troll articles are always like this. All he does is look at stats and doesn’t watch a single game. Heck, he Lou Williams was a big loss! Anyone who watched a game could see he was a ball hog who jacked up shots and not worth the money he was paid.

  18. gus
    4. November 2012 at 10:44

    steve toll should be banned from writing any future articles about the nba. in fact, he should be banned from watching an nba game for the rest of his life.

  19. Hoops
    4. November 2012 at 10:50

    While the most interesting dynamic in the pre-Bynum phase of the 2012-13 campaign is how DC will utilize his 5 (Thad, ET, Swaggy, J-Rich and Wright) wings, the most relevant to early season wins and losses will be the play of Spence. The aforementioned 5 will vie for burn primarily at the 2 and 3 spots, however, if ET can earn PG minutes and Thad PF minutes, then there will be a bit more to go around. That said, the comp will be intense and that scarcity of minutes will afford DC the luxury of giving relevant time to only those willing to buy into his defensively orientated low-turn over brand of ball. Regarding ET and his statistically pedestrian reg season play, ET has had stretches during the post-season in each of his first two seasons where he played great two-way ball against some of the Association’s best wing players. Moreover, without Iggy, that willingness (and ET, at times, does get surprisingly confrontational with his match-ups in the postseason) to attempt to neutralize the LBJs, D-WADEs and PPs of the East will be greatly needed. This back-to-back against the Knacks provides an early 75+ minutes of action against the most complete wing scorer in the NBA. Look for Thad to get the first crack at Melo, but ET and personal favorite Wright will get a chance to prove themselves as well. As for “M-V-P” Spence, he was the driving force behind last seasons fast start and, hopefully, can do it again this season.

  20. sean
    4. November 2012 at 11:19

    so let me get this straight. signing a young and experienced pg who showed promise in the playoffs to go with the acuisition of th 2nd best center in the league is ruining the future? and having turner for 2 more years is also gonna torch the future? look how far the bynum-less 6ers went while being led by this group. give the kids a chance

  21. Danny
    4. November 2012 at 14:18

    Steve toll is the worst writer in the world.

  22. freezer
    4. November 2012 at 16:12

    toll,
    you must feel like an idiot watching the sixers. you might be right about swaggy, but the rest of the moves that have been made have been a breath of fresh air. we went from having shadow network of dubious corporate shareholders who essentially were holding a fanbase hostage to having an ownership group that actually cares about sixers games. We were never going to be a competitor with comcast at the helm. the only time the sixers have been relevant since the 80′s were when pat croce was running the team. when croce left it felt like one of our star players left. i finally have confidence in our executives. think about the major moves of the last ten years. they crony junk bond trading moves. signing elton brand was the epitomy, trading allen iverson for middling assets was maddening. signing iggy do that monstrous deal was heartbreaking. jrue is a superior player to iggy when he got his deal, and its for half the money pretty much. the sixers are signing players to tradeable contracts again thats half the battle. steve its pretty clear you havnt the slightest connection to this fanbase or this teams tradition. you havnt the slightest inkling of the optimism flowing through philly right now. this teams defense will carry us when bynums back once we have him shoring the middle expect us to be a terror

  23. Dan Robinson
    4. November 2012 at 17:21

    This Steve guy seems to be the Skip Bayless of Philadunkia. Spout contrarian opinions in an abrasive manner in hopes that you might attract some attention. It seems that Evan Turner is not an immediate impact player right out of college. It is great to be able to draft this sort of player, but they are difficult to come by. Looking back at the draft, Demarcus Cousins seems like the best pick, though attitude problems persist. He is also dealing with the Sacramento media, not PHiladelphia’s. John Wall is a mystery. If he was somewhere else would he be a borderline all-star now rather than an enigma? Teams win with superstars in the NBA. Its a fact. The dominant teams in the league right now (Heat and Thunder) win with their wings. The jury is still out on LA. We are not going to ever beat Miami by doing the same thing that they do. Building a team around Bynum is perhaps the best shot we have. He is young, and he is both huge, and hugely talented. There are injury and attitude issues, but it is perhaps the best shot we have. Lebron is not leaving Miami and signing with Philadelphia. Holiday seems to have talent, and we will see if he is worth it once he gets the ball-handling abilities that went to Iggy in past years. In regards to Turner it seems that the 4th year is the make or break year for a lot of players who are struggling to make an impact in the league. Pick up the option. What can it hurt. What free agent shooting gurard are we signing? Be honest.

  24. Matt
    4. November 2012 at 18:49

    I see a bunch of ppl saying the Jrue signing was a good move. Guys, it was stupid. Plain and simple. Its not the money that was stupid, its the timing. By signing him now the sixers took themselves completely out of next years free agency. Adding turners option makes that even worse.

    They had first right of refusal with Jrue. They coulda waited to sign him in the off season AFTER signing a big name free agent, sorta like how they were able to do with Brand, before resigning Lou and Ig.

    Now they are screwed. Thats what this artlce is about. Dudes 100% right on the money here. this is nothing new either. This front office/ownership makes me worry. I was stoked when they amnestied brand only to hear in the rumor mill that they only amnestied him because they made an accounting mistake when they tendered an offer to Lavoy allen and Nick Young.
    These cats dont know what they are doing.

  25. Steve Toll
    4. November 2012 at 19:43

    Ross,
    The goal of my writing is to educate Philadelphia fans to the realities of the NBA and to be read. My trial by fire seems to be going well as of right now

    Fu,
    Spot on

    IQ Ballin,
    I certainly agree with some of your points.

    Adam,
    Respect

    Mountain Drew,
    You and Jon should start a group “RAnderson and 10 Mil, nah, give us Bynum” once you both get back from outer space. If you want to be wrong about something, do it in the comment section of the proper article.

    Super Villian,
    I’ll delve into the Holiday fiasco in part 2. ET’s player option being picked up as pointed out was an All-Risk move by the team. This move is squarely on Dileo as I can’t imagine DC was on board with that, more importantly, Bynum certainly can’t like that decision

    Keith,
    Thanks for reading, part 2 will be a real eye opener for Holiday fanboys.

    Matt,
    Lou was the best offensive player on the team last season. He was and continues to be, superior to the new 41 million dollar man. Lou had the 5th best assist:turnover ratio in the NBA, he had a higher True Shooting%, Higher assist%, Higher Usage and Lower Turnover% than Holiday. Let me know when you decice to see a good eye doctor, I’ll be glad to refer one

    Gus,
    You must not be American, this is a free country.

    Sean,
    In a simplified version, Yes. I’ve detailed the long version in previous articles, this one and part 2, which will be out soon.

    Danny,
    Keep Reading, Keep Hating. Next time, let me know how you really feel.

    Freezer,
    Did you just claim Holiday>Iguodala through their first 3 seasons and right before that insinuate that I should be feeling stupid? Oh ok just making sure. Iggy’s deal was great value, go break down how much he was payed and what he produced. Then compare it to other players over the same time period. Let me know which player has a traceable contract and what you expect to get in return, that will be worth the read. Terror is a correction word but not how you mean it to be.

    Dan Robinson,
    Did you just finish with, what could it hurt to pick up Turners option??? Did you read the article where I clearly detail how bad of a move it was??? The team doesn’t need a SG, JRich is on the team and in case you haven’t heard, he has made 2 billion 3pt shots in his career. Just ask Joshua Harris, DC and Adam Aaron.
    Quick Fact: SwaggyP makes 6 million this year, JR Smith makes 5.7 million combined this season and next.

    Matt,
    Thanks for reading my article for what it was meant to say. Stay tuned for part 2.

  26. Mike
    4. November 2012 at 19:49

    I respect Steve Toll actually. He sticks to his guns and believes in what he writes. I don’t always agree but it is nice to get some statistical writing in here once in a while. And these gameday reactions and grades need to come out faster!!!

  27. allan
    4. November 2012 at 19:52

    Please stop writing articles, I’m begging you. I like going on blogs and reading differing opinions on the Sixers but you just espouse garbage disguised as analytics, I would guess that even a casual NBA fan would see your opinion as stupid and narrow minded.

  28. Steve Toll
    4. November 2012 at 19:52

    Fred,

    That was a best case scenario projection for Turner.

    Iguodala has been a very efficient offensive player for his entire career. If X is offensive value, Y is defensive value and X is way bigger than Y, you can be a very good NBA player.

    As for whatever that last paragraph was about, please refer to my response to the comments made by “TY”

  29. Zach
    4. November 2012 at 20:05

    This article is by far one of the worst if not the worst article i have ever read. People who write like this are the basketball fans that have no knowledge about the game. The Sixers front office is fine and the most recent moves of signing Jrue and extending Turner were both smart things to do. I would really love here more on why you do not think it is smart because then i will just prove you wrong until you have nothing else to say.

  30. Ty
    4. November 2012 at 20:17

    Steve,

    Wow, I’m surprised from the harsh words. I didn’t even express how I truly felt about your idiocracy, but now I will. Anyone with common sense would agree with the statement that stats don’t tell the whole story. I used the win shares example because I found out you used this very example to claim that Dre is better than iverson (and you’re calling me stupid!!!).

    How DARE you call some of these fans idiots for using conventional wisdom to juge basketball. You have no idea whether or not Evan Turner can actually live up to his potential and improve his shot (and DO NOT give me stats to back up your idiotic claims). Stats DO NOT indicate potential, so I advise you to SHUT UP, and maybe follow another career path since you clearly have no idea how basketball works. I found it insulting that an idiot called me idiotic. Maybe you haven’t realized it, but calling the fans idiots in your articles and comments display’s how big of a jerk you are. I would like to see if you even dare to respond to this.

  31. Danny
    4. November 2012 at 20:24

    Dang, Toll is trolling some of the posters on this blog. Here’s some advise for you Steve: if you don’t like the comments, don’t read them. By now you must know what type of response to expect. And I think I will stop reading Philadunkia articles by you due to your condensation towards the two guys you attacked.

  32. Ty
    4. November 2012 at 20:31

    Steve,

    I laughed at your response. It is exactly how I feel about your articles. But I at least wasn’t a jerk about it (heck I was nicer than some of the others here). Sorry if you don’t like how I wrote it, but after I read your article, i read the last article you wrote to better understand your views, and took a minute out of my time to post it, since I have a life to live. Next time don’t be a condescending jerk.

  33. Jon
    4. November 2012 at 21:06

    It sounds like Ty insulted you or something, that’s just rude, you don’t say that to your readers. He was in no way disrespectful to you.

  34. Jon
    4. November 2012 at 21:18

    I don’t agree with your statement about how the Sixers have no valuable draft picks. The pick they traded to the heat is lottery protected, so if they really are as terrible as you say than they will have a valuable pick. Also, as I said before, I don’t see how these moves were questionable, the team took a chance. They won’t be mediocre for the coming years, they’ll either be terrible (as you say) or a contender (as I say). Either way it’s an improvement than what this team has been over the last decade or so. Don’t worry I’ll keep “pretending” call me when Ryan Anderson helps lead a team to a championship. Finally, I don’t understand your point on the superstars, they win championships.

  35. Opportunity
    4. November 2012 at 21:43

    Steve,

    This place would be perfect for you:
    http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-friends/index.html

  36. Steve Toll
    4. November 2012 at 23:21

    Ty and his supporters,

    Lets break down his initial comment:

    Part1: This article surprised me a lot. It was very negative writing about my beloved Sixer’s future, and I disagreed with just about every statement Steve Toll made.

    My initial thought: Okay, what do you disagree with?

    Part2: But before I can make a rant against him, I read some of his previou articles. I realized that he makes his assumptions off of stats. I could understand that, being a statistician myself. However, if your reading this Steve, you make too many assumptions and conclusions off of stats. Stats can say a lot about a game, and are rightly being used more by coaches and GMs, but here is the thing about stats. THEY AREEXTREMELY MISLEADING.

    For example, Chris Paul in his 2007-8 had more win shares than MJ did in his 91-92 season, a year he led his team to a championship and was the best player in the world. Paul wasn’t the player in the league that year and didn’t win the championship. Anyway if you read this please respond.

    My initial thought: this reminds me of that part at the end of Billy Madison, it is completely off topic and non-sensical.

  37. Steve Toll
    5. November 2012 at 00:06

    Mike,
    Thanks, I am trying to fight the good fight

    Allan,
    Please explain where my logic or math is wrong in regards to the unnecessary risk the team by picking up his player option, I am open to changing my opinion and would like some wisdom espoused upon me. BTW Did I use that word right?

    Zach,
    Is your last name by chance something like Dileo, Collins, Harris, Aaron? I just spelled out in simple terms why it was an unnecessary risk. If you are willing to explain what part of my logic or math is wrong then we can have a discussion. Asking me to re-explain something that was the basis of this article is beyond absurd. So before you prove me wrong until I have nothing else to say, tell me how you think I am wrong about Turner in the first place.

    Ty,

    This article is about the Dog and Pony Show of hiring an analytic guy and the unnecessary risk-mistake of picking up Turners player option. Your initial response was disagreeing with me, then going on a Billy Madison type rant and not discussing any part of my article. I didn’t call anyone “idiots”, I used a funny quote from a movie that I deemed a worthy response to your original comment.

    There is a certain irony in thinking that you were insulted by someone you perceive as an idiot by having your statement responded to and the word “idiotic”. The irony is that a failure in reading comprehension on your end caused you to think that I called you an idiot when I referred to your statements as idiotic.

    When you continue to say things like “stats don’t indicate potential” and refuse to talk about the basis of this article, which you initially remarked that you wholeheartedly disagreed with, I stand by my original response.

    Tell me what is so wrong with my logic in this article and I will consider recanting my response that was used in the pg-13 comedy, Billy Madison.

    As for stats not telling the whole story, correct.

    Danny,
    Trolling implies an implicit knowledge that I am making an argument that I know is wrong just to have one. That is not the case. People comment because they usually have an opinion on an article they have read. TY felt the need to talk about Chris Paul, Michael Jordan, Win Shares and Stats while completely ignoring the article like that end scene in Billy Madison. My natural inclination was to pay some homage to a great comedian and classic movie while making a point.

    Please read part 2 of this article before you decide to avert your eyes from my writing for the rest of eternity.

    Ty,
    I am an adult. I can take people disliking my articles and I welcome both praise and criticism. Re-Read your original comment and try to make sense of it. Then realize I used a quote from Billy Madison which contextually fit as well possible, add in your failure at reading comprehension and continued failure in telling me how you disagree with my article and what is wrong and I stand by my initial response.

    Jon,
    Ty’s failure in reading comprehension and what seems to be lack of familiarity to Billy Madison had led to this subsequent sewing circle. Read his initial comment and then my response.

    Lottery Picks that project to be outside the top 10 are not nearly as valuable you may believe. I will find my chart of wins produced projections of 1st rd picks to make my point at a later date, but I don’t have it in my IPAD which I’m using now. You realize there are more possibilities than Contender and Terrible? This team is likely to make the playoffs 4 of the next 5 years but quite unlikely to have a top 4 seed in any of those years. If that is your definition of contender, good job good effort 76ers front office.

    Ryan Anderson is awesome at basketball, Elite Scorer and Offensive Rebounder. He is also 6 months younger than Bynum, while having no major health issues. RAnderson makes less that 26 million from 13-14 through 2015-2016. Bynum is projected to be paid 2x that those 3 years while being an underdog in projected production.

    Superstars do win Championships, RAnderson is a borderline superstar. Bynum is a superstar just like Derrick Rose is a superstar, useless as of right now.

    Opportunity,
    I don’t believe in watching the news. I assume that link is some kind of roundabout insult but considering lack of worldly interest, I am going to need a more direct insult if you want to be effective.

  38. RYN_JAY
    5. November 2012 at 01:48

    This is just Steve being Steve. Some nerd who thinks he has basketball knowledge. Any person who believes Lou Williams is a better player now and in the future than Jrue Holiday is mildly retarded. The one and only thing I can agree with you with, is that Evan Turner needs to go. He is a bust. He doesn’t fit our team.

  39. Steve Toll
    5. November 2012 at 08:36

    For anyone who disagrees with my assertion that this was an all risk-no reward move in taking ETs option for next season, would you care to explain why my argument doesn’t make sense?

  40. Matt
    5. November 2012 at 09:22

    Steve Toll: Matt, Lou was the best offensive player on the team last season. He was and continues to be, superior to the new 41 million dollar man. Lou had the 5th best assist:turnover ratio in the NBA, he had a higher True Shooting%, Higher assist%, Higher Usage and Lower Turnover% than Holiday. Let me know when you decice to see a good eye doctor, I’ll be glad to refer one.

    steve, lou has been in the league how many years now? 8 going on 9? he’s already hit his peak at not even 15ppg and a known ball hog and poor decision maker. You would really rather have him than holliday? you really need to watch the games, b/c if you actually did, you’d know what you were talking about.

  41. Sloetry
    5. November 2012 at 09:32

    I defended ET for two seasons. Right now I can’t. He still has no jump shot, and that is crucial in his position. I didn’t see him in college so can’t say whether he had one then, but I would find it hard to say it’s just nerves…there is no arc on his shot. A good shooter who is nervous would still have an arc even if he missed. If he had been working on his shooting over the summer which he should have been (in my opinion anyway), then there’s nothing to suggest that he has…. or he has to go away next summer and find a shooting coach.
    At the moment, we have look at where ET’s strengths lie and use him as a role player, not a combo player. If that’s all he is, then fine, good luck to him. Not gonna hate on him. It’s not his fault if he’s over hyped. To the organisation, he’s a risk to sign to a long term contract, unless you can accept he is a role player (defense and rebounding plus some average other skills) and feel you’ve paid him for that role. The only possible motive I can think that they’ve paid him for is to put his mind at ease and to help him to stop worrying about his future and just go out and play. If that’s the case, it’s noble of the organisation, but everyone tells me the NBA is a business. But let’s hope he really does have an upside in this league. He’s shown flashes after all.

    As for Jrue. I love his game…when he brings it, and that’s the problem. But let’s hope this season sees more of it. He’s a good player, and hopefully has a good upside, but I’ve never been convinced he’s a point guard. He has little natural passing instinct…he will pass, but always pre-meditated, rarely instinctive, and a good 1 zips passes on the money without having to think about it. He’s a risk on a long term contract, but hopefully a good one. Time will tell.

  42. Joe
    5. November 2012 at 09:49

    I agree with you on Turner. Turner has the talent, but he won’t ever get his head on straight to use it correctly. Jrue, however, will prove you wrong now that he’s given more room to play his game. Stats really can’t be used as much in basketball as in baseball because there is much more subjectivity in the game, how the advanced stats are calculated, and how they are interpreted. This isn’t to say that stats aren’t useful, but you have to find a balance. Also, may I ask about your education in the statistics field? Are you just using formulas and numbers made by other people or coming up with your own? A deeper understanding into mathematics is really needed to fully understand what the stats are telling you and what their shortcomings are. For instance, if your knowledge from stats comes from just an undergraduate degree, then you are pretty much able to calculate the EV and SD of how many times you need to wipe yourself and fit that to a normal distribution, but not much else.

  43. MountainDrew
    5. November 2012 at 11:03

    Steve, you cant blame me for using your own words against you. As for Ryan Anderson and 10 million vs Bynum, Anderson played next to Dwight Howard, so he got open for three a lot. He’s an elite shooter, I’ll give you that. However, look at his stats from his games in NO. He was awful against SA. He can not get his own shots, and relies on other players to get him open. He does not play a lot of defense either. I just don’t see how he is a borderline superstar, when he has only been good for one season in which he was put in the perfect situation. He will not be nearly as good this season because he doesn’t have Dwight, but Davis. See? He’s an elite role player, not a star. As for the 10 million, Demar DeRozan and Taj Gibson both got near 10 million, both are vastly inferior to Jrue (Jrue also has a lot more potential than those two). Even though I agree we may have overpayed Jrue a little, it’s just how the market works today, you dont get a lot more valuable players than, say, a David West. You can get a good role player, not a borderline star, because those borderline stars will always get overpayed (Turkoglu).

    I do not hate your article, and I agree it might have been better to let ET go. However, there is still a chance he becomes a decent player, and I’ll take that for his money. I do understand your point of view though. What I do not understand, however, is how you just strike at the owners this way. “Joshua Harris and his crew should just sell this team right now.” Name some former sixers owners that have done a better job. The Jrue extension was not a huge mistake. Et option might have been, but hey, at least it is not Derozan. I just don’t see how we are stuck in mediocrity when we have the second best center (yes he has health issuea, I know), and young pieces surrounding him like Jrue, Thad and Hawes. I feel like we just got out of it by getting rid of players that were in or past their prime (EB, Dre, Louis). Even if Bynum’s knees end up going to hell we can just not resign him and tank, we have a pick in every future draft if we don’t make the playoffs, because the picks we sent to Miami and Orlando are both lottery protected. I just don’t get how we are more mediocre than what we were last year.

    Please respond, I respect you, honestly.

  44. Sloetry
    5. November 2012 at 11:58

    ps…. by the way, anyone notice Nikola Vucevic went 18 points and 13 boards last night lol

  45. Steve Toll
    5. November 2012 at 12:23

    Matt,

    Lou is 26 years-9 days old, and he has peaked?

    As I’ve made mention : Lou had the 5th best assist:turnover ratio in the NBA, he had a higher True Shooting%, Higher assist%, Higher Usage and Lower Turnover% than Holiday.

    so if he is a bad decision maker and known ball hog, what does that make Holiday?

    Sloetry,

    Turner is an 10th man kind of player, the decision to pick up his option is squarely on Dileo and the owners. As much as I dislike DC, he certainly voted against picking up the option.

    JRue is the 4th best PG in the division, there is no reason to pay him $10,000,000 a season as I will make clear in part 2 of this article

    Joe,
    I watch more NBA than you would believe. Not all of my stuff is based on stats, Logic is a big part of my writing. People have been right on much more complex stuff that I have and been considered wrong/crazy by a majority of people.
    My education in statistics comes from the Streets, yo.

    Mountain Drew,
    Explain RAnderson’s per minute production every year of his NBA career? http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anderry01.html

    Also explain how RAnderson is an elite offensive rebounder while most of his offense comes from the perimeter and he played last season with Dwight Howard? RAnderson was 1st in 3s and 6th in Offensive rebounds.

    With Holiday, other teams making bad decisions isnt a reason to pat the team on the back for making a less bad decision. Taj Gibson is quite good and I would trade him in a heartbeat for Holiday.

    NBA teams generally do a terrible job with player contracts. It happens year after year and will never stop. Most GMs are
    wholly unaware of the fact that there is a Draft and Free Agency every year and that players of value can be acquired via trade.

    Harris and the boys seem to be inclined to allow Dileo and DC to be the decision makers for many years to come. They will also be responsible for picking the heir to the 76er GM throne. I dont have confidence that they will pick someone smart and I see many years of futility ahead. That being said, there are lots of teams that I think the same thing. It isnt a singular indictment of the 76er ownership group.

    Brooklyn, NYK, OKC, LAC are prominent teams off the top of my head, then there are PHX, CHA, ORL whom are the dredges of the NBA and all would benefit from a change in ownership.

    Bynum isn’t a lock to stay or even produce at a max level because of injuries if he stays. Holiday has yet to be average over the course of a season. Thad is being hampered by having DC as the coach. Hawes is leaving in 2 years. The starting 2 guards is 32 at the end of January, on the decline and we’re stuck with him for 3 years. The team has no 1st rd picks of value currently on the team or a draft pick of serious value (top 7 picks) on the horizon.

    Assuming that Bynum leaves and the team ends up with the 5th pick in the draft. Holiday, Thad, Turner, Jrich, Hawes, Lavoy, Maalik, Moultrie and 20 million in cap space this upcoming offseason is likely to lead to years as 5th-8th seed and a lobsided 1st round exit.

    Assuming Bynum stays, it will only likely to lead to years as a 5th-8th seed and a more competitive 1st round exit.

    Thanks for reading, hope I gave you some satisfactory answers

  46. Ty
    5. November 2012 at 14:56

    Steve,

    I don’t have time to point out all of your fallacies (it would be a long list), nor do I really care. I probably overreacted to your comment, and I apologize, but my opinion of you hasn’t changed, but I decided I’m not going to argue with you, since it is really hard to argue with idiots like you.

  47. Ty
    5. November 2012 at 14:59

    Steve Toll Haters,

    Stop reading his articles. Next time you see an article by Steve, just don’t open it, cause you’re only helping his case.

  48. Jeff McMenamin
    5. November 2012 at 16:13

    Steve,

    Too harsh of a tone on the owners, but I understand (kind of) your frustration. Turner won’t get a deal in the offseason unless he really steps his game up. He’s part of the 1-year rentals the team has on its roster. They’re building around Bynum, Holiday and Thad unless Bynum is done in which case the team is royally screwed for the future. Those 3 combined with above average role players and a future stud draft pick could win Philly a championship.

    It’s 2 games into the season. Turner can’t play as horrifically bad on offense as he’s looked for 80 more games. Your post goes all the kings men on Evan Turner when it’s just his 3rd season in the league and his first time as a starter. Didn’t it take your boy Kyle Lowry 3 years to adjust to the speed of the NBA?

    I won’t know if you’re right or wrong until the end of the season honestly. I hope for your sake that Turner continues his bad play, or else readers are going to crush you.

    If the Sixers didn’t pick up his option and in the next 80 games ET turns his game around and blossoms into the player he was at Ohio State, then the organization would be shooting itself in the foot for the next 10 years.

    You also won’t find out how good this team really is until Bynum returns, so even judging how the team has played through preseason/regular season so far is kind of pointless.

    -Jeff

  49. Steve Toll
    5. November 2012 at 16:24

    Sloetry,

    Vucevic will be a solid NBA player for years to come. The Front Office for the 76ers got worked over in that trade, it’s quite laughable. In a year, we could very well be saying that Philly came out 4th in the trade.

    Ty,

    Start with 1 fallacy from this article. I’m interested because in your original comment you referred to a “rant” you wanted to make about this article which has yet to materialize

  50. Matt
    5. November 2012 at 17:00

    Steve,

    “Matt,

    Lou is 26 years-9 days old, and he has peaked?

    As I’ve made mention : Lou had the 5th best assist:turnover ratio in the NBA, he had a higher True Shooting%, Higher assist%, Higher Usage and Lower Turnover% than Holiday.

    so if he is a bad decision maker and known ball hog, what does that make Holiday?”

    Again, you keep talking about stats, which just PROVES you don’t watch the games. And lou has peaked. You want some numbers, how about 11-15ppg average the last five seasons. His best overall season was 3 years ago at 14/3/4/1 on 47% shooting. Last two years he’s been 13.7 and 14.9 ppg on LESS THAN 41% shooting. Pathetic for a SHOOTING GUARD.

    Holiday is only 3 years in to his nba career, is only 22. And holiday is the point guard!! A lot of his contract is on potential which is much higher than williams at this point. I’d rather pay him than williams.

    Just 2 games into the season the numbers are:

    Holiday: 20.5/9/4/1.5 on 47% shooting (pts/assists/reb/stl)
    Williams: 20.5/4.5/2/2.5 on 38% shooting

    So far i’d EASILY pick holiday

  51. Mountain Drew
    5. November 2012 at 17:06

    Yeah, you’ve cleared it up some for me now. RAnderson was overlooked at first, he’s definitely a good player, but no star. I do understand where you are coming from, even though I still don’t agree.

    I just want to say that you might be underestimating what the sixers with a healthy Bynum can do, they might be the only team in the east that stands a good chance against miami, the fact that no miami player can guard him alone makes him very valuable because it opens up the floor for Jrue, the shooters and yes, ET. The sixers can not let him go after this short of a time period, but if he hasn’t become a lot better after his rookie deal, then you should let him go. As for jrue vs gibson, gibson is 5 years older than Jrue, so he has peaked, jrue not. I would like to use your words and say that “no sane person would” trade Jrue for Gibson. I do not share your opinion on the sixers being mediocre if Holiday can take it to another level because he has the potential to, even if he isn’t too good right now (although the first 2 games have been encouraging). The pg & c combination is a great one, historically. Anyways, I’ll see if you can change my mind with your next article, and you will probably see me commenting on future articles as well. Go sixers!

  52. TW
    5. November 2012 at 20:35

    This thread is absolutely hilarious.

    Keep ‘em coming, Steve. This IS a free country. And you might be right with your analysis. No one can conclusively prove otherwise at this point. It’s all just chatter. Including my comments.

    Whoops. Kwame Brown just went down. There goes the season….

  53. Matt
    5. November 2012 at 21:43

    Steve toll makes some good points. If you think that Jrue’s extension is good you are an idiot. Good young player but 10 million a year you have got to be kidding me. Also if you think Evan turner is ever going to be anything more than a decent role player your an idiot. What is the best thing that Et does? Rebound? I dont know about you but i dont want my number 2 overall pick who is suppose to be a 2 guard to have his best trait as being a rebounder. This team is ready to be mediocre for a long time. Have fun being a 7 or 8 seed for a long time.

  54. the super villain
    5. November 2012 at 23:47

    Well Nick Young is definitely a bad NBA player.

  55. Leave It On the Court
    6. November 2012 at 00:35

    Steve,

    I’ve disagreed with many of your posts in the past (much like the rest of the world), but I think your argument in this article makes a lot of sense. My assessment also takes into account the potential of your wanting to hit back at the 7-6 for not hiring you in place of Barzilai.

    ET is an engima for a 2nd overall pick. He shouldn’t be, but he is. We have no choice to live with him this year, but we certainly didn’t need to live with him next year too if he doesn’t improve dramatically this season.

    Holiday has a high bar now given all the $$$ thrown at him. I’m not convinced he’s a true point guard, just like I’m not convinced Turner is a functional NBA SF. Turner is a guy who needs the ball in his hands, but he doesn’t have enough of a jump shot to keep defending PG’s honest.

    After years of malaise under Ed Snyder, I applaud Philly’s new ownership for getting involved and caring. The question is whether their brand of caring is ultimately destructive to the team’s ability to win now and in the future. We’ll see. Something tells me we’re all a prisoner to Mr. Bynum’s knees.

  56. Steve Toll
    6. November 2012 at 03:05

    Matt,

    There are multiple years of evidence that Lou is superior to Holiday. I appreciate you typing out the stat lines for those guys over a couple game sample size. You obviously did your due diligence in that regard. Teach me.

    Mountain Drew,

    Check out Gibsons production the past couple years, he is far better than Holiday.
    Trading Holiday for Gibson actually makes perfect sense. He is a great defensive power forward whom would be a great fit next to a healthy Bynum. Turner could run the point while Thad, Dorell and Jrich take up most of the SG-SF minutes. Hawes would be the first big off the bench with Lavoy next. Maalik would be the backup pg and SwaagyP would play sparingly along with Royal, Kwame and Wilkins

    I’ll take a peak defensive PF over an ~average point guard on a team that is trying to win now, everyday.

    If Holiday becomes an elite Point Guard, you are absolutely right. But before he can take the next step, he needs to not get outplayed by Raymond Felton in a back to back.

    Ty,
    Still waiting for my critique of this article.

    Matt and SuperVillian,
    Spot on

    Leave it in the court,
    I can assure you that I wanted no part in the 76ers front office job even if they offered me a job. I’m not going to sit in a dark room 10+ hours a day, have poo flung at me, and be forced to have shooting contests with Nick Young. Unless they payed me $100 dollars per day.

    The team just payed Holiday a ridiculous sum of money. It’s basically never a good idea to extend a restricted free agent unless he takes a below market deal, where the market value is equal to his actual on court value. There is free agency every year and an NBA draft every year, players like Holiday come and go. Someone who is worth X is still worth X regardless of what he can get on the open market. It’s more complicated then that, For instance, a team who needs a PG to add to the championship puzzle, Holiday might be worth the max if that is what they have to pay to get him. The 76ers are nowhere need that situation.

    Turner will go to Europe after the 13-14 season and end up having a great career if he is interested in actually enjoying his basketball life.

    I am shocked that a man of the intellectual level of Joshua Harris could have run the organization the way he has since the team was purchased. He made all his money using numbers and his 2 main guys absolutely abhor using statistics (not just publicly available ones) when evaluating players…..

  57. sean
    6. November 2012 at 11:38

    LOVE philadunkia. hate steve toll. please get rid of him. didnt even bother reading the article after reading first sentence. tell him to stop being such a prick and fire him.

  58. Danny
    6. November 2012 at 14:06

    Steve,

    Did you not read Ty’s comment. He’s done with this blog. And you criticize us for not reading clearly!

  59. Steve Toll
    6. November 2012 at 14:50

    Sean,

    Your hatred of my writing only adds fuel to my fire in my quest for literary greatness, your contribution albeit small, will not be taken in vain. You have my word.

  60. Sun of Man
    6. November 2012 at 17:58

    You guys should take into account that Steve Toll is only 20 yrs old. Doesn’t have a degree in math or statistics, or any field to do with numbers. His history of basketball is young minded. Also there are sour grapes of him not getting hired on the sixers analytical staff. He wants to be John hollinger and skip bayless at the same time. I forgive him because he’s only a child. The articles bring in hits, so keep them coming.

  61. Steve Toll
    6. November 2012 at 18:41

    Danny,

    I guess my “condensation” towards those 2 guys is why you are going to evaporate from reading my future articles?

    My condescending time hasn’t drive you away yet. Please at least read part 2 in which I eviscerate Jrue and the front office

  62. Steve Toll
    6. November 2012 at 20:00

    Sun of Man,

    Most every great mathematical breakthrough came from someone under the age of 30. You don’t know how old I am, what degree I got or from where. I haven’t watched 10 seconds of Skip Bayless in my life. Hollinger has a nice little system that he came up with which I have acknowledged is totally flawed. There is a reason you can’t use PER to be a successful sports bettor, but it would probably work reasonably well as a General Manager only because of how terrible the average GM is.

    My mind isn’t filled with absolutes and ill conceived basketball logic. I was also born with a natural wiring that makes it easier for me to understand basketball than most people. My writing is done to educate people about basketball in the simplest way possible.

    I forgive you for being old and close minded. In regards to getting hired for the 76ers, in part 2, you will get an answer of why I was never in the running for the job.

    Your whole comment is insinuating that I know little about basketball and many of the things I say are wrong. 3 games in and if not for George “worst of all time coach” Karl, I’d basically be batting 100% in everything I have wrote, but again lol sample size

  63. Justin
    6. November 2012 at 20:50

    Steve,

    Would you care to expand upon your claim that you were “born with a natural wiring that makes it easier for me to understand basketball than most people”. Maybe I’m missing something, but I have never heard of such a claim and I am intrigued to learn how you discovered this.

    Regards,

    Justin

  64. Steve Toll
    6. November 2012 at 23:09

    Justin,

    My writing speaks for itself in regards to that. What I am talking about encompasses more than just evaluating basketball. This specific claim you may not of heard, but make no mistake, you have heard that claim thousands of times before just with different wording on different subjects

  65. Toll is Nuts
    7. November 2012 at 20:08

    Toll,
    Criticism of ET is absolutely irrational and unwarranted. By no means a lightning quick, super athletic specimen. I like to compare him to Jared Sullinger in a sense that he’s not a physical freak. Nonetheless both are incredibly gifted, crafty, and smart. He’s no scrub either though. ET is a smooth, fluid scorer and crafty distributor. He finds ways to penetrate the lane and uses his quickness, length and frame. He can outmuscle quicker guards and use his moves to get by bigger defenders. Anyone with knowledge of the game can easily see this.

    Look at it like this: since the post-Iverson era they’ve been a team with overcrowded backcourts, mediocre head coaches, mediocre bigs, and a second-tier star in Iggy faced with the burden of being the feature guy when he is an excellent complimentary player. We have our center piece in Bynum this isn’t an ancient C-Webb or gimpy Brand. ET is being paid 6.7 mill…6.7 mill for 15, 5, and 5? He doesn’t have the highest ceiling associated with most top picks, but why not give him the money, lock him up for a few more years and see what happens. Bynum is undoubtedly the center piece of this team. Other SFs being paid ET’s salaries are Trevor Ariza, Metta World Peace, and Tayshaun Prince. How is Philly getting less than them for 6.7 mill? I know KD LeBron and Melo aren’t being paid 6.7 mil. For Turner’s money and a little less you have your choice between Jonas Jerebko, Luke Walton, Linaz Kleiza. Guys aren’t nearly as valuable as Turner who’s making about 5.6 this year. Holiday is on the verge of that second tier of PGs. 10th in PPG a year ago in an overcrowded backcourt. What other playoff teams can say they’re paying their third piece and 3rd scoring option for 5.5 mil? Also, you criticized the Sixers management for somehthing you assumed they’d do. They can certainly make this work. Doug Collins can do alot. Push the series with the Celtics 7 games. Turn Lavoy Allen into a valuable asset. Get something out of Jodie Meeks. Turner for 2 years was stuck in an overcrowded backcourt with Lou, Jrue, Iggy, and Meeks. Turner needs the ball in his hands to be an effective playmaker and have an impact on the game. It’s hard to find guys who can do that (Iggy, Mutombo) He looks at times like he’s trying not to make mistakes instead of letting himself free. His rise in production will result from opportunity. 12.5 ppg per 34 mins last year should be boosted with less competiton in backcourt even though Nick Young throws up everything in sight. With that said I don’t mind the direction of the team. Bynum move was fabulous. He hasn’t played yet thats obviously a major part of the struggles to open. A whole new group of guys is in here too. My father’s been a season ticket holder for 20+ years I’ve sat right behind the bench for years and seen the chemistry between Lou, Iggy, Jrue, Evan, and Thad. It’s important on the court and it will take a while to find some continuity and cohesiveness with this group of guys. Toll I’d like to hear a response I think this is certainly an interesting debate

  66. GETRIDOFTROLL
    8. November 2012 at 08:20

    Please stop allowing this imbecile to write articles. PLEASE.

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