Posted by: Tom Sunnergren
11/24/12 10:24 pm EST
Oklahoma City Thunder 116 FinalRecap | Box Score 109 Philadelphia 76ers
Lavoy Allen, PF 28 MIN | 3-4 FG | 2-2 FT | 4 REB | 3 AST | 8 PTS | -5During a fourth quarter in which the Sixers outscored OKC 19-13, LA was large on both ends. He scored six points on three shots, grabbed three rebounds, and blocked a pair of shots. Thing is, there were other quarters.
Thaddeus Young, SF 44 MIN | 13-23 FG | 3-3 FT | 15 REB | 4 AST | 29 PTS | +5A career night in every sense. Thad set a new career mark with 15 rebounds and fell just four shy of setting a new personal standard for points scored. He was tremendous.
Evan Turner, SG 41 MIN | 10-17 FG | 6-7 FT | 5 REB | 4 AST | 26 PTS | -4Another very good night for ET. He made plays large and small (blowing by Sefolosha to tie it at 100 early in OT fits neatly in the “large” category) and effectively manned the point in the third quarter while Holiday was riding the pine with foul trouble.
Jrue Holiday, PG 37 MIN | 3-11 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 13 AST | 6 PTS | -17The 13-2 assist to turnover ratio was, especially considered against his early season struggles, impressive, but not a whole lot else went right for Jrue tonight. The offense was better when he was off the floor.
Jason Richardson, SG 18 MIN | 5-7 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 13 PTS | -3Before he reaggravated his sprained ankle, J-Rich was very good and very efficient.
Dorell Wright, SF 33 MIN | 3-8 FG | 0-0 FT | 6 REB | 2 AST | 9 PTS | +1After the Sixers win over the Raptors, Doug Collins made a point of telling the media he intended to play Wright more often. His playing time tonight: more often. The forward’s 33 minutes were the most he’s played since Nov. 9 against Boston.
Spencer Hawes, C 19 MIN | 3-6 FG | 1-3 FT | 3 REB | 2 AST | 7 PTS | -3Spencer had a great third quarter but didn’t do much else.
Nick Young, SG 25 MIN | 4-10 FG | 0-0 FT | 4 REB | 3 AST | 9 PTS | +7Say what you want about Nick Young: he does not turn the basketball over. Swaggy is averaging 0.7 per game on the season and has committed just one in his last eight outings.

After the Jump, (7)6 Things We Saw

  1. Kevin Durant, I think you could argue without getting looks, is playing the best basketball in the NBA right now. It was more of the same on Saturday. Durant scored 29 points after intermission (for 37 in toto on 22 shots) and added eight rebounds, five assists, four steals, and three blocks. He stuffed the box score till its seams stretched.
  2. A battle of the Bruins. Russell Westbrook, who had a brilliant first half before yielding the floor to Durant in the later going outplayed Jrue Holiday in a matchup of distinguished UCLA hoops alums; outscoring him by 24 points (30-6).
  3. Line items. The Sixers lost tonight despite making six more baskets than the visitor and one more 3-pointer. The culprit: the foul line. Owing to a series of calls that not just Sixers’ partisans viewed as ticky-tack, the Thunder attempted 37 free throws and made 32 of them. The Sixers shot and made 20 fewer FTs.
  4. A brief power outage. Sandwiched between an overtime period in which they scored 18 and a third when they racked up 35, the Thunder managed just 13 points in the fourth quarter, including a scoreless stretch that lasted it’s final four minutes. The Sixers held the visitor to just 5-of-21 shooting in the period, while OKC shot 34-of-67 the rest of the evening.
  5. Three was the magic number. OKC shot 2-of-16 from 3-points during regulation. In the overtime period? The suddenly white hot Thunder hit 4-of-5 from long range. It was the difference.
  6. This Sixers team is a star center away from being very, very good. I’m sick over Andrew Bynum right now. You should be too.


24 Responses to “GM 13: RAPID REACTS”

  1. Adam
    25. November 2012 at 01:38

    Jrich cant defend. I like that he has active hands and bodies up, but thats really just a crutch cause he cant stick anybody.

    Kinda glad he went out for wright…. Durant would have done even more damage had jrich stayed in.

  2. Mike
    25. November 2012 at 11:56

    Wheres the Damien Wilkins rating? Probably deserves an F for those two missed free throws. And wheres Kwame’s? Oh, and wheres Wayns? The guys you overhyped this entire season. Really did well out there…real explosive…

  3. Steve Toll
    25. November 2012 at 13:59


    How do you feel about DC starting the game with ET on Thabo (a non threat offensively) and JRich covering Durant? It certainly didn’t make sense to me, why do you think it was done?

    ET is certainly better off with the ball in his hand but he also shots 7-10 from areas on the floor where his is a career 40%.

    Thad had a superb game.

    Jrue, LOL and its not gonna get any better tonight, you heard it hear first

  4. Lennix
    25. November 2012 at 18:36

    al jefferson and jsmooth are lookin real good for this offseason right about now…

  5. hank allingham
    25. November 2012 at 20:33

    Everyone, remember, you heard it from Steve first: it won’t get any better than this for jrue holiday. Oh yea, until he goes off for 33 points and 13 assists the next game.

    Steve, I suggest you wait for a player to have more than one off game before making arrogant, nonsensical predictions.

  6. good job toll
    25. November 2012 at 22:10

    boom troll I mean toll just got made a fool out of by jrue. jrue said oh wait how bad am I toll? not putting up allstar numbers? 4th best pg in division? worse than lou Williams? boom take that!

  7. good job toll
    25. November 2012 at 22:14

    lennix I duno bout you but I like thad at the starting 4 hes been really proving this year that he deserves to be a starter so id prefer to get Al Jefferson and a sg/sf upgrade this offseason

  8. Jon
    25. November 2012 at 22:58

    That’s just Steve Toll being Steve Toll.

  9. Steve Toll
    26. November 2012 at 00:23

    Jrue was unconscious tonight. His 14 game sample size this year and from last season shows that was an aberration of sorts.

    Like Turner last night, tonight, Jrue shot 66% from places on the floor where he is a sub 40% career shooter, 8-12 I believe.

    In regards to orchestrating the offense, Jrue did a superb job.

    Al Jefferson is a superb offensive frontcourt player who is pretty much in the prime of his career. In 2 years he will certainly be on the downside. Defensively he is absolutely atrocious. Al Jefferson is basically Carlos Boozer.

    Josh Smith has been abysmal through the first 13 games (I blame Lou Williams). He is 1 year younger than Jefferson and a much better choice. Few players have the skillset of a player like him and for all my criticisms of DC, I believe he can remove the long 2 from his game and help take him to the next level.

    The 76ers cap situation makes it near impossible to get Josh Smith as the team presently stands. Kwame will likely be traded with $3,000,000 this offseason which will give the front office the cap flexibility to sign JSmooth.

    All the team needs to do is convince him to play here this offseason, which is highly unlikely at this point.

    Even if they do: Jrue, Smooth, Turner, JRich, Thad, Hawes, Lavoy, Moultrie, Maalik and a lottery pick isn’t going to win much of anything in the playoffs going forward the next few years

    John and Hank Allingham,

    Even with Holidays performance tonight he still isn’t in the top 100 of WS48 in the NBA among players who play 24+mpg. He is FAR behind Felton, Kidd, Calderon, Deron Williams, Rondo and Lowry through this point in the season, which makes him the 7th best pg in the division.

    Even with tonight’s performance, he will still be behind players like Mo Williams, Randy Foye, Jarrett Jack, Darren Colllison, Steve Blake, Jameer Nelson, and Luke Ridnour and a myriad of others.

    WS48 is not a perfect metric by any standard but Holiday here are the players who are producing 2x the WS48 than Holiday amongst players who are 6’4 of under: Mayo, Dragic, Conley JR, Lowry, Westbrook, Kidd, CP3, Teague, Rondo and a personal favorite of mine, Sweet Lou Wlliams

    Guys producing at least 1.5x WS48: Irving, Deron, Jennings, Parker, Lillard, Sessions, Felton, Calderon, Curry, Hill and even Jameer Nelson

    Holiday is the only player of those guys who has a lower Offensive Rating than Defensive Rating.

    Hope this cleared some stuff up.

  10. Steve Toll
    26. November 2012 at 00:58

    Holiday has a +1.2 Roland Rating, which places him 16th amongst PGs so far this year:

    His Assist:Turnover ratio is 2.15:1 which is good for 34th among guys who play 24+mpg, less than JR Smith

    Defensively, Holiday has improved but he is terribly inconsistent at this point as evidenced by his play on that end so far this year. He has all the tools to be a good defender, it is a work in progress

    Shooting wise, Holiday has only attempted 21 3pt attempts the past 230+ minutes over the course of 6 games. Over that same spam he has shot a grand total of 14 free throw attempts.

    Those 2 trends can’t continue as Holiday is only a career 40% shooter from the the midrange.

    While my views may seem “hater” like, it is quite the contrary. It is a realistic point of view.

    The last 6 games he got outplayed by Calderon/Lowry, Jeremy Pargo, Westbrook, Brandon Knight.

    Jrue merked Mo Williams/Randy Foye and Goran Dragic, the latter being a far more impressive performance.

    In other news, lets all put our hands together for the MVP of tonight’s game, Alvin Gentry. ’twas a true stroke of genius to sit Marcin Gortat the whole 4th quarter, even George Karl certainly gave a massive face palm after seeing that

  11. Jon
    26. November 2012 at 01:18

    Holiday’s SIAI is in the top 3 of the East. Far greater than Rondo or Williams. But you seem to forget to mention that.

  12. Jeff McMenamin
    26. November 2012 at 01:23


    Why does it matter if Jrue or ET are hitting their shots from areas where they normally hit their shots? Isn’t that a good thing? Why do they have to prove they can hit shots from spots where they normally miss?

    Isn’t the sign of a good player playing to their strengths?

    After averaging an NBA-high 6.0 turnovers in the first seven games, Jrue is down to 2.6 in the last seven games. He also became just the 5th player in the last 5 seasons to record 33 points, 13 assists and 2 or fewer turnovers (Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Monta Ellis, LeBron) in a game and just the 3rd Sixer to do it since 1985. The other two were Barkley and AI. That’s some pretty good company.

    26 assists on 4 turnovers the past two games for Jrue is a great sign of Holiday making the proper adjustments.

    For the record, Calderon/Lowry outplayed him for three quarters…When it mattered in the 4th Jrue outplayed them 10x over. Pargo had a career night, Westbrook is Westbrook and Knight is a former 2x Gatorade National Player of the Year…no slouch by any means.

    You don’t “seem hater like” you are being a hater. Jrue is an MVP candidate right now. Without him the Sixers would probably be about 4-10 instead of 8-6.

  13. Jeff McMenamin
    26. November 2012 at 01:28

    Jrue is currently 10th on’s MVP rankings…

  14. Steve Toll
    26. November 2012 at 12:07


    I am just pointing out the reality of each players performance.

    You completely missed my point about ET and Jrue shooting against OKC and PHX. They both ran extremely hot from the midrange, where they are both 40% career shooters and shot 66% on those nights.

    BTW did you notice how happy ET was after the OKC loss but not nearly as pleased after the PHX WIn

    Are you actually saying that Holiday has been better than Thad this season?

    Holiday this season:
    1 Elite Game (PHX)
    4 slighty above average games (NYK, BOS, UTH, TOR)
    4 slightly below average games (NYK, CLE, MIL DEN)
    5 Outright Bad Games (NO, DET, TOR, CLE, OKC)

    Holiday has been outplayed by: Felton, Lowry, Calderon, Pargo, Westbrook, Knight, Jennings

    Holiday had a stalemate with Lawson on opening night. slightly, if at all outplayed Rondo, was less terrible that Vasquez, was better then Kyrie (who played 1 handed), Dominated Mo Williams-Randy Foye and had the best game of his career last night against Dragic.

    Holiday is being miscast right now through no fault of his own. ET should be running the point and Holiday would be a 22pt/5ast guy and basically be a lock for an All-Star spot this season….. as I will be detailing soon

  15. Steve Toll
    26. November 2012 at 12:16

    For all my criticisms of Jrue, most are not his fault. He is a combo guard through and through. He can defend 2 positions, shoot the 3, along with creating for himself and others.

    Players similar to Jrue around the same age: Kobe, Wade, Pierce, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Harden, Westbrook

    Obviously, these are players were all superior to Jrue at his age but they were all guys who are 20+ pts, 4+ assist type while playing good-great defense, which is what Holiday can be.

    Right now, he is not that player. In time I hope that he will be

  16. freezer
    26. November 2012 at 13:03

    Steve Tolls taking the next step in analytics and has begun recording aberrations. This explains everything!!!!!!
    On a serious note, we should be celebrating the fact that holiday is carrying the team, and for the most part the sixers have won almost every game they should of won. Obviously jrues not going to kill it every night there is such a thing as fatigue, but hes at least playing dominantly every other game or every third, and once they take some pressure off him hell only get more efficient. I think by the end of the season, hell be a undisputed top 10 pg and possibly top 5 if he can keep outproducing all of his peers.

  17. Jacob
    26. November 2012 at 14:32

    pargo are u serious?

  18. LCK
    26. November 2012 at 15:07

    As you said Steve, WS48 is far from perfect. So why are you so stubborn and so defensive about your position on Holiday. just because he doesn’t get rank high on win shares or other advanced stats, or because he’s having a little trouble with turnovers, doesn’t mean you have to go ballistic on him.

  19. louie
    26. November 2012 at 15:10

    yo steve, were you insulting the great George Karl. wow!!!! Karl is one of the most widely respected coaches in the league, and is considered by most GMs as the best offensive minded coaches in the league oh and by the way, he survived cancer. Twice.

  20. Corey
    26. November 2012 at 17:09

    Steve, taking trolling to a new level, Toll, how you still write for this blog is beyond me. There is subjective and then there is just outright stupid, you crossed that threshold, a while back actually.

  21. Jon
    26. November 2012 at 20:22

    basically what steve toll was saying was that it’s impossible for ET/Jrue to improve. Then, when he realized he just got burned by Jeff McMenamin he attempted to backtrack slightly and say Jrue could be a player at the level of Kobe if he played the 2, which in his defense he has stated multiple times. However, he still managed to contradict all of his previous comments. Thank you Jeff for being a consistent source of reason.

  22. Steve Toll
    27. November 2012 at 03:29


    It’s not perfect but it’s impossible to be superior to guys who have a 1.5x bigger WS48 score than you do who play the same position. Did you just say “just because he doesn’t rate highly on advanced stats” and insinuate that I am “ballistic” for pointing it out?

    Please tell me what you dispute in regards to this:
    Holiday has been outplayed by: Felton, Lowry, Calderon, Pargo, Westbrook, Knight, Jennings

    Holiday had a stalemate with Lawson on opening night. slightly, if at all outplayed Rondo, was less terrible that Vasquez, was better then Kyrie (who played 1 handed), Dominated Mo Williams-Randy Foye and had the best game of his career last night against Dragic.

    GK is horrible, as evidenced by pretty much every game he has ever coached. His rotations in the playoffs cost Denver the series against LAL last season and he generally just does a horrid job, watch the end of the UTH-DEN game last night. If you think I should be impressed that NBA GMs think highly of him you are barking up the wrong tree. Most GMs are as terrible or worse than GK. I’m glad he didn’t die from cancer, he seems like a nice guy but he still is a bad coach

    Thanks for reading, sorry that my contrarian views are upsetting to you. Fact is, reading my stuff is like being pulled out of the Matrix after a certain age, it’s tough to conceptualize the reality of it all

    ET is still horrible and Holiday isn’t very good at his current position. There are ways to rectify that (give me control of the team) but in all seriousness, I wouldn’t trust Dileo and DC to run a lemonade stand other than the security side of things. If you mean “Jeff takes the worst of every comment debate we have ever had and his supporters actively ignore every piece of publicly available analytical evidence while citing their ‘eye test’ which I consistently and methodically tear apart on every occasion” then yes, I just got burned.

  23. MountainDrew
    27. November 2012 at 07:06

    Steve, do you honestly believe that win shares makes a player like blake better than Jrue? Defensive rating is BS. And of course it is inconsistent because you fave different players every night.

  24. lck
    28. November 2012 at 14:38


    Kobe’s ws48: .1849
    Neil Johnston’s ws48: .2413

    Kobe way better than Johnston, so yes, it is possible to be superior to a guy who’s ws48 is between 1.25-1.5X greater. If you actually think that Johnston was better than the Black Mamba, you’re just trolling.

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