Posted by: C. Smith
12/07/12 7:59 am EST

That’s a question that has been hotly debated here at Philadunkia during the early part of this 2012-13 NBA season.  Many of the scribes and readers here on this site believe “The Jruth” is well on his way to becoming a very good player and is quickly closing in on that “elite” level.

A few others, including my talented colleague Steve Toll, beg to differ.

Late yesterday Sunny Saini of the ESPN Stats & Information department wrote a post that outlined some interesting data which indicates that Jrue is in fact absolutely headed in the direction of becoming an “elite” point guard in this League.

After the jump we have some excerpts from that post which should promote a spirited debate in the comments section today.

According to Saini’s statistical research on Holiday’s play so far this season:

“If he keeps up this pace of 18 points and nine assists per game, he would be one of four players since 2000 to have those averages along with Chris Paul, Steve Nash and Deron Williams.”

“Even though Holiday is leading the NBA in turnovers with more than four per game, the 76ers as a team have the second-lowest turnover percentage (12.6).  With a career-high usage rate percentage of 26, the turnovers are expected to be high.  At his current averages, Holiday would join Hall of Famers Isiah Thomas (1986-87) and Magic Johnson (1988-89) as the only players with 18 points, nine assists and four turnovers per game for a season.”

“He has been responsible for 43 percent of his team’s total points this season, which leads the NBA.  The “points responsible for” statistic includes offense generated from assists and points scored.”

“Holiday has made drastic improvement in his shooting percentage from 42 percent last season to 46 this season on pick-and-rolls and isolations.”

Might I suggest that you give Saini’s entire post a read.  I’m not saying it’s the definitive answer to the “Is Jrue an elite PG?” debate, but it certainly provides compelling evidence in favor of one side (assuming Jrue continues this level of play).



13 Responses to “IS HOLIDAY ELITE !?!”

  1. gabe
    7. December 2012 at 11:26

    steve toll is a troll. dude throws out some stats and writes an article. i’d be surprised to learn he actually watches the sixers and/or has ever played basketball. every week he writes some garbage on holiday. and every week toll gets slightly more pathetic. jrue is clearly elite. evan turner is clearly not a point guard, despite the plethora of blind people out there. jrue is averaging 9 plus assists. hello. jrue is a point guard. and he;s very comfortable on the court. the fact is the sixers should be starting games letting him run the game through pick and roll. he gets them the best shot every possession. it’s when they start trying to “get everyone else involved” and running pick n rolls with j rich or letting turner handle point guard duties that this team starts falling. doug needs to let jrue run the show, and stop overcoaching for once in his career.

  2. DJScope
    7. December 2012 at 12:05

    For any video gamers out there, even 2K Sports has noticed the improvement in “Holiday Season”‘s game and progression. They have boosted his rating from 83 to 87 (tied with a healthy Bynum) to include increases in his ball security, passing, off awareness, etc. with the “Dime” signature skill to go along with his already “Pick Pocket” skill.

    But Holiday is definitely coming along and I plan to see him make the All Star Team this year if he keeps his play up and continues to decrease his turnovers per game.

  3. Steve Toll
    7. December 2012 at 13:53

    After the Boston b2b, I’ll be doing a quarterly review of the team. Holiday will be a main topic, and any argument for or against the eliteness of Jrue will be put to rest as it stands through 20 games.


    Explain Ryan Anderson’s absurdly low rating when he is one of the best players in the NBA and certainly better than Holiday

  4. Lck
    7. December 2012 at 14:12

    The difference between Sani and Steve is the difference in the stats they put more weight in. Steve is in love with ws48, while this guy finds other ones more effective. Who’s right? If only we had a stat for that…..

  5. gabe
    7. December 2012 at 15:10

    this is a childish argument toll u have no business writing such rubbish. even a blind man can see that the sixers are at their best not when turner is getting runs at point or j rich is running the pick n roll, but when holiday has the ball in his hands and we play simple pick n roll ball. holiday is clearly the only guy capable of creating for others effectively enough to warrant isolation plays from the perimeter. turner needs to hone in on his mid range game and his open jumpers. he needs to stop thinking he needs to have the ball in his hands to play well, and only then will he start to turn into the player we see flashes of on given nights, like we saw from him against charlotte when he went 10-14ish and was efficient coming off screens and playing within his game.

    the ryan anderson garbage isnt even worth more than a mention. childish. im sensing thats not really steve toll responding but someone just making fun of him….nothing surprises me with this troll character though.

  6. freezer
    7. December 2012 at 15:33

    Most young players when thrust into the role of goto scorer and playmaker typically struggle with shot selection and making the correct play and because of this they tend to have really bad fg%3pt% and turn the ball over alot. Holiday is still shooting the ball really well and his %’s are consistent with what hes done over his career. While holiday is leading the league in turnovers, this is not due to him being a bad pg his ass/tur ratio is average for a starting Pg and his ranking is right there with other elite gaurds. Holiday’s turnovers are due to him playing to many minutes carrying the team, trying to set up poor scorers. Hes not a out of control player looking for his own shot; hes an under control player looking for his terrible teammates, huge difference.
    The best young up and coming player at limiting turnovers is kemba walker, Holiday turns the ball over more by half a turnover. Thats not shit and i’ll take it. Combine this with his elite defense and the fact that hes 22 and earning his check, Yea I’d say if hes not elite yet hes well on his way there if he can keep this up.

  7. Alex Hootan
    7. December 2012 at 15:35

    So what is the answere to Gabe’s question? Did Steve Toll actually played basketball on the court or on his computer only. No offence!!!

  8. freezer
    7. December 2012 at 15:37

    BTW-Philadunkia, could someone make my year and due a quarterly review of steve Tolls Collected works for this season and compare his take on the sixers to those of us who live in reality. your welcome in advance for whoever has the balls to write such a piece.

  9. Jonathan
    7. December 2012 at 15:57

    the fact that either of you are using 2k ratings as supports for arguments is sad.

  10. Tyler
    7. December 2012 at 16:24

    To me, an elite point guard is only as good as his performance against other great point guards. So we will get some answers tonight against Rondo. I am not a stats guy. Stats are helpful in some cases, but placing too much emphasis on them blurs the true picture. Nearly every single NBA talking head would agree that Jrue Holiday is on the verge of elite status. Where would this team be without him? He is currently #9 on’s MVP ladder. That has to count for something. Someone is recognizing his play this year. Look at the names he is being mentioned with in some of these categories. Lebron, Rondo, Magic! His turnover rate is expected. Give the kid a break. He still has room to grow as a player, and by being used often, his skills and court awareness will only increase.

  11. Lennix
    7. December 2012 at 16:40

    get off ryan andersons jock strap. lol ryan anderson for all-star forward? never. jayrue has a shot at backup pg but who really cares. this team is going to hit a wallmaybe john wall but no really this team, like clockwork every season, will hit a wall and be bound to be onthe outside looking in and maybe make a push for the 7 or 8 seed. ive read toll wants lottery, i would too if bynum is lookin bum and just worry about makign cap while jayrue ET and thad develop. jrich and hawes too cus we dont really have a choice. anyone else im forgetting? oh yeah that moultrie character DC refuses to play. talk about a coach who kills a young players confidence. i have vucevic on my fantasy team, yeah i drafted him, he was my favorite sixer last year and hes getting monster boards now. wasnt he benched for some odd reason last year? cus he was young or something? not sayign dont throw him in that trade but the point is let the young guys play. thats my only gripe with DC. otherwise im having fun watching this team, minus the wolves game the other night.

  12. Lck
    7. December 2012 at 22:54

    Did you really just say Neil Johnston was better than Kobe. Well, it’s official. This is all an act. Nobody should take you seriously. And with that, I’m done with this website. May god have mercy on your soul.

    Ps. Have you ever even seen Neil Johnston play?

  13. Fred
    8. December 2012 at 00:31

    The next article that comes from this site should be an explanation as to why Steve Toll is still allowed to write. Any reason at all would be great, he’s your cousin, knows where you buried the bodies, etc. By simply allowing him to continue on as a writer like this means you are condoning it, meaning you actually think his opinion has enough merit to be a writer. I think that spits in the face of the vast majority of readers.

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