Posted by: Tim Parker
01/11/13 10:10 am EST

Here at Philadunkia we have chosen to completely ignore the debacle that happened up in Toronto on Wednesday night.  Many of us here viewed that contest as the worst performance of the year by the 7-6.  We can understand soiling the bed in San Antonio during the final game of a long and challenging 8-game road trip, but what exactly is the excuse for the Sixers uninspiring effort vs. the Raptors?  In our collective opinion there is none. 

Look, we realize that this roster is tragically flawed with Bynum out of the lineup.  And we understand that fact is a huge obstacle to ask a team and head coach to overcome for nearly 40 games.  We also acknowledge that the Sixers schedule has been brutal of late.  Still this team is better than what they have shown in the last two games.  The effort at the Wells Fargo Center on Tuesday night vs. Brooklyn was weak and what happened in Toronto was downright embarrassing.   To say we are frustrated with this team is an understatement.

So in order to avoid a very negative rant style post by one of our writers and in an effort to find some solutions to the Sixers problems, we are turning to ESPN analyst Tim Legler.  Why Legler?  Well, Legler is not just a former NBA player and a great NBA analyst; he’s also one of us (At least in our eyes).   

Legler scored over 1,500 points at LaSalle, is a member of the Big 5 Hall of Fame, earned a MBA from The Wharton School and is married to a former Eagles cheerleader.  So Legler is as Philadunkia as Dr. J, Allen Iverson and The Spectrum.  As a bonus, he still lives in the Philadelphia area, attends numerous Sixer games each year and is actually somewhat of a 76ers fan.  Basically, he knows the 7-6 inside and out. 

Yesterday Legler gave me some time to Philadunkia scribe Tim Parker to discuss numerous Sixers topics, including why the Sixers have struggled so badly this season. 


Philadunkia:  What has been the Sixers biggest impediment so far this season?

Legler:  I honestly think it’s been inconsistency.  I think they’ve had a breakout year out of Jrue Holiday, but I think outside of Jrue Holiday (they haven’t gotten much)…I think they were counting on more progress out of Evan Turner.  I think they were obviously counting on Andrew Bynum to be their big part of (the team).  What they were going to do was going to be built around him.  He hasn’t played at all. Thaddeus Young had a good start but I think he’s been inconsistent as of late.  So, I think more than anything they’ve just had a really hard time finding that same level of effort every night that they had last year, and they had a hard time recapturing that…Still, plenty of time to get it turned around, but I think that’s been their biggest problem.

Philadunkia:  What’s the issue with Evan Turner?  Why is he so up and down?

Legler: I think the biggest issue with Evan Turner is I don’t think he’s got enough… hasn’t developed his deep jump shot game enough at the NBA level to where he can be a consistent 18 to 20 point scorer.  He’ll give it to you on some nights when he’s hitting that pull up jump shot and he’s getting to the rim and maybe he mixes in a long jumper, but more often than not that shot’s not there for him, so when that’s the case teams play him differently and he has a hard time getting to the basket and getting to the areas of the floor he likes.  He needs to become a much more consistent deep shooter.  If you play the 2 in this league you really have to be a guy that’s a consistent 3 point shooter for the most part.  Most teams have guys in that position, especially as a starter.  That’s how they play.  They mix in enough 18 to 24 ft. jump shots to offset getting to the rim.  He has never really made that a consistent part of his game and I think as a result on nights when that’s not there and he can’t get to the rim, he has those nights where he gives you, 6, 8, 10 points and that’s the inconsistency I was just talking about.  It’s tough to win every night when you don’t know what you’re getting out of that position because typically that’s a consistent scoring position in this league.

Philadunkia:  Is confidence an issue (with Turner)?

Legler:  I think it is.  I think it goes up and down with him, I definitely do.  I think he’s the type of guy (from what I’ve seen), the more success he has early in the game – he’s going to have a good night.  If he has a slow start, or he gets up into the middle of the 2nd quarter and he still hasn’t really gotten it going, there’s a good chance he’s not going to turn it on later.  So, I think that’s something that Doug Collins almost needs to make more of an emphasis… to try they get him a couple of easy baskets early in the game or a couple free throws…it seems like it opens things up for him.

Philadunkia:  In the short term, what can the 76ers and Collins do to fix their problems?

Legler:  Geez right now, all they can really do is to tighten up things defensively and try to put together some sort of winning streak, gain some momentum, and find themselves more of a viable threat.  Right now, like I said, I think they are disappointed being (under) .500.  They think they’re better than that based on what they did a year ago and I think right now to me since the offense has been so inconsistent I think you do everything you can to focus on the defensive end of the floor and try to take more of a Chicago Bulls and Indiana Pacers mentality defensively and try to gather some momentum to make you feel good about your team and then have a better second half.

Philadunkia:  Demarcus Cousins – Would he be a good fit for the Sixers? What’s the likelihood they can get him?

Legler:  Well, you know he’s definitely a guy that I think the Kings have finally reached a point where they’d move him.  He’s a big time talent but sometimes the trade off with what the negative that he brings to your locker room and your practices every day and some of the emotional things you deal with him during the games aren’t worth it.  And in the Sixers case, you almost have to take a chance on a big time talent to try to get you to another level because right now they’re a mediocre team in the Eastern Conference.  Anywhere from 3 to 10 (Eastern Conference positions) all those teams are pretty even.  So if you want to now bump to the Miami Heat and New York Knicks’ level you got to upgrade your talent base, he certainly would do that.  So, Doug Collins might be the kind of guy that can handle him, and if he’s on a better team, I think he’s going to calm down a lot.  I think he’s frustrated with all the losing, and he’s immature and that’s been a big problem for him. So, maybe he gets to a team that’s at least .500 and contending for the playoffs, that might make him grow up a little bit more and realize he really appreciates the situation and that Doug Collins gets a lot of respect from the guys on that team.  That might keep him in line.

Philadunkia:  Do you think a Sixers trade for Cousins could happen?

Legler:  I haven’t heard Philly mentioned in the rumors myself.  I’ve heard other teams but it’s absolutely possible.  It definitely makes sense.  If I am in Sacramento I’m going to ask for a lot in return but unfortunately for them Demarcus Cousins has hurt his trade value with some of the things he’s done.  They’re going to use that against Sacramento in a trade.  It’s going to be more of a buyer’s market with him and it’s a shame for them because he’s such a high pick and he’s got so much talent.

Philadunkia: What should do the Sixers do with Andrew Bynum in the long haul?  

Legler:  It’s a great question.  I think the big problem they have is that I don’t know that Andrew Bynum is going to want stay in Philadelphia.  To me, he seems more of a glamour city kind of guy.  I think the northeast mentality in terms of the fan base, I think could be a difficult place for Andrew Bynum to succeed because of the issues he has in and out of the lineup with injuries.  I think he has shown some maturity issues throughout the years.  All of those things are things that the Philadelphia fan base is not going to really react to… not something they are going to endear themselves to.  So, I don’t know as he’s sitting back and watching everything if he’s really seeing himself in a Sixers uniform long term.  If that’s the case Philly’s got to think about trying to move him, because he’s a big piece of what they’re going to do, and he could just walk out the door in the summer.

Philadunkia:  What do you think they will do with Bynum? 

Legler:  I think they are going to try to resign him because believe it or not I think they are going to let this play out. He says he wants to play this year. Maybe he comes back and give them a strong month at the end of the year, he has a respectable showing in the playoffs whether that’s one round or two rounds and I think that could turn everything around, where now Philly’s going to realize that this a guy…he’s back, he’s playing, played well for us down the stretch and commit some money to him.  It’s almost like they can’t move him without at least seeing what he does to their team, and that’s the problem.  The position he’s put them in.  The trading deadline is only a month away and he’s put them in a very difficult position because they don’t know how he fits.  So that’s a tough break for Philly.


31 Responses to “INTERVIEW: TIM LEGLER”

  1. Steve Toll
    11. January 2013 at 11:16

    WITH BYNUM HEALTHY, Toronto is a favorite over the Sixers in a 7 game series. I don’t see why anyone is frustrated with the team, they suck, it’s the front office that people should be upset with.

    Now for some Tim Legler Awesomeness…….

    1. “outside of Holiday (they haven’t gotten much). I think they were counting on more progress out of Evan Turner. Thaddeus Young had a good start but I think he’s been inconsistent as of late”

    Answer: Jrue gets outplayed more often than not, he is massively overrated. ET has regressed, so he has a point there. Thad’s fatigue is leading to his inconsistency.

    2. “I don’t think ET’s got enough… hasn’t developed his deep jump shot game enough. If you play the 2 in this league you really have to be a guy that’s a consistent 3 point shooter for the most part. Most teams have guys in that position, especially as a starter. That’s how they play. They mix in enough 18 to 24 ft. jump shots to offset getting to the rim.”

    Answer: ET isn’t a 2, he is a 3 or PG. Long 2’s are a part of success from a Game Theory standpoint and it transfers over but to suggest that the improvement of the Deep Jump Shot aka the lowest EV shot in the game is a major reason for ET’s failures is absurd. ET isn’t a good shooter from anywhere, and is currently regressing to the mean on 3’s and 10-16 ft shots. He is below average at getting to the rim and is a below average finisher.

    3. Right now the Sixers a mediocre team in the Eastern Conference.

    Answer: WAS, CLE, CHA are the only teams in the NBA who Philly is a favorite over in a 7 game series. Mediocre doesn’t mean what you think it means

    4. It’s going to be more of a buyer’s market with DMC.

    Answer: This guy is both a basketball analyst for ESPN and a Wharton Graduate? Variance. DMC has Hall of Fame ability, is going to make $5 million in 2013-2014 and then is a restricted free agent that offseason. In what world would that create a buyers market regardless of maturity issues?

    5. Philly’s got to think about trying to move Bynum.

    Answer: Tim, Great Answer, finally. The front office SHOULD try to move him but Hubris will intervene. Instead, he will be resigned and the team will win 55% of its games when he is healthy and be terrible when he is not.

    6. Maybe he comes back and give them a strong month at the end of the year, he has a respectable showing in the playoffs whether that’s one round or two rounds

    Answer: Playoffs???????? The team is likely to be 9 games under .500 at the halfway point of the season, How do you think they are going to make the playoffs, is Lebron getting traded to Philly?

  2. mike
    11. January 2013 at 13:54

    I still cant believe you hate on jrue it just blows my mind im pretty sure your the only person that thinks hes overrated.

    tim has turner at the 2 because that’s the position he should play he clearly cant guard 3’s in this league and we saw how he cant run an offense when jrue was out.

    going by record the sixers are a mediocre team in the conference but ill partially agree that we don’t look like a mediocre team.

    hall of fame ability? people talk about all star ability and he should prob make one first before you talk about hall of fame ability and its just like the Dwight howard situation he wants out the team doesn’t want him anymore but his actions and maturity issues have hurt his trade value. do you think in another world if Dwight howard didn’t act the way he did that the magic would have gotten so many mediocre talents? the answer is no

    I only want to trade Bynum if we don’t trade for another great piece(hopefully replacing turner)

    technically we are still in the playoff hunt so maybe if Bynum come back soon we can make it but that time table is shortening real fast with the way this team is playing right now

  3. gabe
    11. January 2013 at 14:05

    steve u don’t watch the sixers if u think holidays overrated n gets outplayed more often that not. go troll elsewhere

  4. gabe
    11. January 2013 at 14:06

    legler at least played the game whereas u just sit there behind ur stats

  5. Rob Y
    11. January 2013 at 14:12


    Before I sound like I’m simply out to get you, and I agree you make some valid points in your response to Legler (e.g. how bad ET is/its a buyers market for DMC), I still think you slightly exaggerate how bad the Sixers really are at this point in the season. Personally, I think they’re unbearable to watch and have 0 real assets, but most of the non-playoff teams in the East are in the same boat (aside from their valuable lottery picks).

    Rebuttle: This point translates to a bunch of other teams as well but for one, the Sixers were +4.5 in Toronto a few nights ago. On a neutral court, this means that we are 1/2 point underdogs.

    – In the NBA, there is a +/- 4 for home court and in the NFL the +/- is roughly 3 – you can look it up from pretty much any gambling writer/site in the world. –

    Anyways, in addition to Toronto’s home court advantage, it was also the Sixers second game in a row after a their brutal loss to Brooklyn the night before (playing a second day in a row hurts your team roughly one point). Even without Bynum, the Sixers are slight favorites over Toronto currently. Simply put, with a semi-healthy Bynum, we are easily favorites in a 7 game series.

    In general, I think you are slightly underestimating the Sixers as a team and I think instead of reiterrating a lot of the points you make why we are garbage, I think we should try to change the subject a little to how to fix these problems (which may very well take 4-5 years), but during these years what should we do/should we even bother caring until they at least get some soul back on their team. Random note- Sixers to me are about 100x less watchable without sweet Lou Will doing his thang.

  6. Mike
    11. January 2013 at 15:48

    Jrue does seem to get outplayed by a lot of pgs sometimes. But he is improving. I wish we had last years team back really. This is just not fun to watch

  7. MattSg
    11. January 2013 at 17:07

    Stevie……. holiday overrated ? Pshhhh .. are you even a sixer fan bruh?

  8. Steve Toll
    11. January 2013 at 20:38

    What hate? It’s very obvious that he is below average. Go look at how he has done against his opponents on a game by game basis. How can you be an All-Star when you get outplayed more often than not?

    The Dwight Howard and DMC situation are in no way similar. Orlando actually got a good haul for D-12 and their intentions for the future. The real mistake was trading Ryan Anderson for Gustavo Ayon in what was by far the worst move of any team this offseason.

    FYI Orlando turned down a Blake Griffin + DeAndre Jordan for D12 trade

    The only talent coming here is going to be in the draft lottery, if the team doesn’t grab a stud, the next few years will be mediocre AT BEST

    If this team make the playoffs, I have said before, I’ll be getting a suite and loading it with Philadunkia’s finest readers and the other writers for the 1st home game.

    Do a game by game breakdown, prove me wrong…… Oh wait YOU can’t. As for Legler playing the game, Cool Story bro

    Rob Y,
    If you read in on the Internet, it must be true. Please cite the point spread thing and THEN explain how it is there are people who beat the spread for a living

    You realize WITH Bynum healthy, Toronto is better at PG-SG-SF-PF which would make it quite difficult for Philly to be the favorite at least by a rational person…

  9. Steve Toll
    11. January 2013 at 22:28


    Pshhhh, do you even watch the 76ers, bromandius?

    Go do a game by game breakdown of Jrue this year, if you can do it properly (you obviously can’t) , you’ll STILL come away disappointed.

    For example: Jose Calderon > Holiday and Greivis Vasquez = Holiday

  10. Steve Toll
    11. January 2013 at 22:33


    For example: Jose Calderon > Holiday and Greivis Vasquez = Holiday

    This isn’t just the 76ers game, Calderon is flat our better and Holiday is no better than Vasquez

  11. Steve Toll
    11. January 2013 at 23:17

    For anyone watching or who watched the LAL-OKC game, Joshua Harris is sitting next to Dwight Howard……. Weird

  12. RYN_JAY
    12. January 2013 at 01:03

    I just completed a successful trade on ESPNs trade machine. The 76ers send SF Evan Turner and C Spencer Hawes to the Sacramento Kings for SF John Salmons and C Demarcus Cousins. LETS DO IT!!!

  13. Fu
    12. January 2013 at 02:44

    Please allow me to remind you the purpose of this interview w. Legler:

    “(…) in order to avoid a very negative rant style post by one of our writers”

    Thanks Steve for ruining the effort. Although i agree with most of your statements – very unfortunately – let’s give our team a break.

  14. Gordon
    12. January 2013 at 08:23

    Man man man what to do with this guy Steve Toll? Okay so Jrue is Averaging 18+ and 8+ and all you can say is he is being outplayed… okay for you stupid stat/desk jockeys basketball is a team sport. TEAM Sport! 1st for you to try and put your 2 cents in about Legler’s analysis for one is inappropriate you are an ESPN writer stop hating on the other ones in a public forum its unprofessional. Second Jrue is beastin he is playing with his team in a funk missing alot of their shots and without a real threat down low so yes on some better well balanced team his STATS wont be better but this basketball equivalent you have of moneyball needs to stop. If you could equate stats to actual value we wouldnt need scouts you could just look at a sheet and pick players. In his 4th year Jrue holds his own with top pgs everyone will have an off night but how many pgs has he outplayed this year?
    your name should be Steve troll because thats all you seem good for. And about Evan he does need to lengthen his effective range it will help space the defense and it also draws your defender closer to you to open dirving and passing lanes. the long jumpshot being the worst shot statistically yes its true you know why mister genius its because there arent many people who perfect it anymore Kobe, Bird, Reggie, Mullin, Ray Allen, Allan Houston, Barry, Majerle and many others made livings of the long and 3pt jumpshot because they worked at it and made it their game you cant group everyone into your little stat box because thats what makes sport fun each person is different. I bet you 9 out of 10 people cant fade away like MJ but if he would’ve listened to stats he wouldn’t have his 6 rings. What about 7’0″ big men shooting threes how effecient is that yet we have Dirk and even Love (a little shorter okay) three point champ. WATCH BASKETBALL… STOP READING IT and

  15. gabe
    12. January 2013 at 12:18

    Steve Troll,

    u really overuse the whole cool story, bro thing. i know u are trying to be witty in the midst of all your ridiculous statistical analysis but let’s get a few things straight.

    if the sixers call toronto/new orleans and offer jrue for calderon/vasquez straight up, the raptors biggest worry is sounding too excited that the sixers take it off of the table (thank god the sixers management/doug collins isn’t quite as blind as u and would never trade jrue)

    you can hide behind your stats all you want about win shares and yada yada yada, but fact is jrue is averaging 18 + and 8+ and is the biggest reason that the sixers even have 15 wins.

    how about you do us all a favor and tell us about the sixers games u actually watched this season. ACTUALLY WATCHED. not just looked at the advanced stats and box score the next day.

    the first game of the season jrue willed this team to a win, outplaying andre miller, the incredibly overrated ty lawson, and iguodala.

    when philly went to new orleans, jrue treated vasquez like a child. he bullied him.

    despite rondo’s 20 assists in their first meeting, it was jrue’s 21 and 14 assists, and big plays down the stretch that won the game for us. but i’m sure u didn’t watch. u will argue that because rondo had 20 assists he outplayed him proabably. LOL. hilarious. u put jrue on a team with paul pierce and garnett and they will be way better than the 8th seed.FACT. the second game against boston rondo flopped jrue to six fouls. and in boston we just looked like chickens w our heads cut off, typical undisciplined doug collins basketball.

    our second game against toronto was won with the ball in jrue holiday’s hands. he made all the plays at the end and brought us back, either making the play himself or hitting an open nick young, j rich three.

    the suns game at home he completely dominated.

    on the road against charlotte 15 assists.

    could’ve won in chicago thx mostly to jrue, but the refs didn;t give him the continuation on a big play in the last minute

    the first okc game jrue had 10 assists in first half and if not for 2 bs fouls at the 9 min mark in the 3rd he may have taken it over and we may have won.

    his first game back from injury we casually routed the hawks.

    we beat the lakers (behind an incredible performance from jrue,we beat the grizzlies. jrue kept us in games against golden state and portland

    im not going to talk about every single game but for god sakes man c’mon u have no business writing on the sixers if you’re gonna sit here and call our best player overrated and act like your win shares and other bs stats determine a player’s worth.

    no stats can sit here and tell u that the sixers lack an offensive game plan. we should be running everything through jrue.

    dorell wright, nick young, j rich should be spreading the floor and shooting. we should not be swinging the ball side to side and running dorell wright pick and rolls. shooters shoot.

    the other thing is when we foolishly take jrue off the ball, it’s almost as if he doesn’t exist to his teammates. turner RARELY passes to him, even if he is wide open. turner is out there trying too hard to prove himself. he’s out there competing with jrue, not playing with him.

    the other night v raptors was a perfect example of this. turner had the ball on the break and the sixers were making a little comeback, and jrue was in the corner wide open for a 3. turner saw him and hesitated just long enough to travel right before getting the pass off to jrue, which jrue then made the shot of course.

    doug collins and turner were seen arguing during the game. the team has no discipline offensively. i’m not saying we would be atop the atlantic if doug actually had an offensive game plan, but we would more likely be right around .500

    going into this season the sixers were supposed to be a great shooting team. i don’t think j rich got to top 10 in 3 pointers on luck. dorell wright, nick young. these guys can all shoot. but they should not be relied on to create off the dribble. PERIOD.

    kwame brown is our best rebounder and he doesn’t see the floor.

    the team is not being coached well. but yeah go ahead and write another article about how bad the sixers are, how u don;t watch them, and how ryan anderson is better than jrue holiday. gimme a break man

  16. Gordon
    12. January 2013 at 12:38

    Oh and by the way i want a ticket to the games when the sixers make the playoffs because they will. DC doesnt allow his teams to fail and this is coming from a guy who is really pushed to the brink of my tolerance with some of his choices. He is a great coach and this is a team with so many new players that it hasnt even remotely reached its peak. We were holding our own in the beginning of the season and as a team they have alot of capability together if you want to troll on something talk about the lack of ball movement and lackadaisical Defense once the defense gets its act together and follows the right rotations and schemes (something stats cant tell you this team will be atleast as mediocre as legler says and thats what he means that we have the talent and the capability but its the effort that is lacking. SOOOO JUST MAKE SURE YOU KEEP YOUR WORD AND BUY ME SOME GREAT PLAYOFF TICKETS

  17. louie
    12. January 2013 at 13:14


    Are YOU watching the games??? Holiday has played very well against most of his competition. He’s probably been outplayed in about 1/3 of his matchups. This is hard to compare on a one game basis who played better unless it is very obvious. In many of these, it was pretty close. Which is why we call you a holiday hater, cause even when its hard to tell, you say he got outplayed because you clearly disllike him because of his inefficiency. Yes, Holiday is inefficient, which is why his advanced stats are so poor. But just because you aren’t efficient, doesn’t mean you aren’t effective. Holiday is a terrific player and a potential all star with good upside. He probably wont be a superstar, but he good definetly turn into a top five perimeter defender and a very good point guard, even with the inefficiency. Just look at Kobe. He is extremely inefficient, but he is still extremely effective, and has won 5 rings.

  18. Aamir
    13. January 2013 at 08:56

    WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! “The Raptors would be favored over the Sixers in a 7 game series with bynum” WHAT? If you’re a raptors fan why are you going on a sixers blog talking about how jrue holiday is overrated? Let me give you a couple of stats to prove you wrong:
    1. Jrue Holiday leads the NBA in percentage of points accounted for at about 45%. AKA, he’s the #1 option by a longshot.
    2. Only LeBron and Tony Parker (pretty good company) have lead their team in points AND assists as many times a Jrue (18 games).
    3. He and Westbrook are the only players averaging 18 and 8, and Westbrook takes more shots and shoots 41% to Jrue’s 45%.
    Still think he’s overrated? You probably only watched the recent L vs. the raptors…and even then he actually played solid. AND he’s one of the best defenders in the L.

  19. sean
    13. January 2013 at 10:30

    the fact that steve toll still works for philadunkia is upsetting. to say jrue is overrated and being outplayed when every other analyst is saying he should make the all star team is just stupid. please go write for some other team and complain about one of their young players improving. it would make most of us readers very happy.

  20. Steve Toll
    13. January 2013 at 12:53

    Does anyone want to explain this?????

    NBA GMs do a terrible job usually, so saying hypothetical what they do means nothing.
    The 76ers 100% are a better team tomorrow with Calderon instead of Holiday and very similar with Vasquez.

    I’ve been right about the 76ers from day 1, you think I’m suddenly wrong now???
    Hawes > Holiday in all of the teams best wins this year.

    It’s a suite and I doubt you’ll be making the cut, not that it will be happening anyway.
    I can assume you that the team is lacking in both talent and coaching. They’ll win 55% of games when Bynum is 100% healthy as the team is currently constructed.

    It is impossible to be inefficient and effective at the same time on offense.
    Lol at comparing Kobe and Jrue. I’m not here for what he “probably will become” I am here for the now.

    Jrue turns it over a ton, and scores with average effiiciency. Doing a lot and doing it well seem to be something that think are one in the same,
    “Best Defenders in the L” doesn’t mean what you think it means but he is improving.

    Fact is, I have been more correct about the 76ers than all of these other analysts , who are currently clamoring for a BELOW AVERAGE player on a bad team to make the All-Star team. Please check out the above link and explain that

  21. gabe
    13. January 2013 at 14:10

    i found out a little tidbit. steve troll is simply mad because he applied for a job with the sixers and didn’t get it, probably because he tried to tell them to get rid of jrue.

  22. Gordon
    13. January 2013 at 15:21

    I was officially done with you once and for all when you said spencer hawes is more important than jrue holiday… now i know your gonna comeback with stats and say when spencer scores 20 or more we are such and such of wins and so on and so on but once again instead of from a statistic sheet tell me why? I will tell you its because when one of our big men actually contributes and im not talking about thad, Hawes, Lavoy, hell even if kwame could it makes the defense play differently. they have to guard their man instead of clogging the lane we get better spacing, floor balance our guards and swingmen can drive instead of shoot mid range jumpers all game. Hawes isnt more important than jrue ever… EVER. But in order for this team to be a winning team we need some sort of effectiveness down low. Bynum was the solution but who knows if that will happen, I personally would try and get rid of spencer and evan maybe thad whichever of those three could land someone like Cousins even though he is a nut job. how about Milsap or jefferson or any 1 of the jazz’s 20 bigmen. But again this was suppose to be a breath of fresh air against negativity and thanks Mr Troll you ruined it again… I dont know whats worse watching the last road trip or reading the things you write lmao. Thanks for trying Mr Parker it was good until i got to the comments…

  23. Jon in LA
    13. January 2013 at 17:51

    Steve, what are you asking us to explain? That Holiday has more points, reb, and assists than both Calderon and Vasquez?

    Saying Hawes played better than Jrue during their best games is a meaningless statement. What about all the other games that Hawes plays weak in? Great, he’s played big against other bench players in games that we won. The problem is he plays bad in other games and isn’t being the big man we need (though I think he’s better than Allen).

    You’re whole thing is you want vindication for your ideas. But you’re trying to do it on a Sixer’s blog where people come to root for the Sixers, not listening to a whining wanna-be know-it-all who thinks Kobe is a bad player while everyone else in the world sees him as a top five player and hall of famer.

    But it’s cool, there was a nerdy kid in high school like you that tried to tell us WWF was real. We kept him around because we felt sorry for him.

    But shout out to all the other writers here. Still one of the best blogs and Toll does keep it interesting in the Eskin kind of way.

  24. Lennix
    13. January 2013 at 23:02

    this team needs to take a chance on tradiing for cousins for turner. including vucevic in that bynum deal has made us horrendous on the boards and making my fantasy team prosper.yes, me drafting vuc, i feel like the only one from philly that has benefited from this trade(28 rebs one game? tell me we couldnt use those rebounding rates right now)
    Getting cousins out here next to jrue and thad would be great for the timebeing while we wait for #33. playoffs might actually be a legit headline

  25. gabe
    14. January 2013 at 12:14

    the kings are not trading cousins for turner

  26. Joe
    14. January 2013 at 15:28

    Steve Toll,

    Regarding the link that you would like explaining, allow me to offer my two cents.

    Jrue has a PER of 18.5, which is 0.85 standard deviations better than the average of all players who have played over 400 minutes this season (~10mpg). This places him in the top 19% of all players in the league in terms of PER.

    However, he has a WS/48 of 0.08, which is 0.40 standard deviations worse than average. This places him in the bottom 37% of all players in the league in terms of WS/48.

    So now my question to you is this – these stats are telling us different stories about Jrue. Which do you believe, and why? That is, which metric do you think paints a more accurate portrayal of Jrue’s value to our beloved Sixers?

    I would be fascinated to hear your answer and the methodology behind it.

    Warm regards,


  27. Steve Toll
    15. January 2013 at 01:23


    My own grading, which isn’t going to be layed out in exact detail or close to it.

    In simple terms, here is my assessment of JrueHoliday: He gets outplayed more often than not.

  28. Joe
    15. January 2013 at 04:16

    Steve Toll,

    Okay, so if you’re using your own grading then you’re disregarding the link to Jrue’s stats from basketball-reference and using your own stats, so why do you want someone to explain it? Surely, if you’re using your own grading, numbers like PER and WS/48 are irrelevant to your argument.

    All the best,


  29. Jeff McMenamin
    15. January 2013 at 07:30

    Joe’s arguments and reasoning>>>>>>>>>>>Steve Toll’s arguments and reasoning

  30. steve toll
    15. January 2013 at 09:46


    It should be easy enough to figure out by looking at the link provided.

    How about this argument: Jrue gets outplayed more often than not

    Considering my logic is supported by the fact that my writing compares quite favorably to anyone else writing about the 76ers and I have been spot on time and time again more so than anyone on plant Earth, ill just have to live with that.

    I cab nonly lead you all to Water, you must drink

  31. Joe
    15. January 2013 at 17:45


    Thanks for your support!


    I am aware of the data in the link provided, but all it does is tell me what I have already outlined to you – that Jrue has a PER of over the league average of 15.0, and is therefore a good player, but also a WS/48 of below 0.1, and is therefore a bad player. I am asking you which metric is more valid with reference to Jrue, and you have told me that you are using your own grading. Fair enough, but if this is the case then the link you provided is not relevant to your argument and we should disregard these metrics.

    I appreciate that you wish to keep your own work under wraps as I understand that it is your intellectual property, but some idea of how you calculate Jrue to be a below average player would be much appreciated.

    Furthermore, I did not ask you for the methodology behind your own grading system, I simply wanted to know whether you prefer PER or WS/48 from a statistical point of view, and why.

    I’ve just done a bit of work myself that I think may interest you:

    I gathered PER and WS/48 data for this season on all guards with over 400 minutes played. Bear in mind that this data only includes guards, so the average PER’s and WS/48’s are not equal to 15 and 0.1. Here is a quick summary:

    avgPER= 14.57
    sdPER = 3.96
    avgWS/48 = 0.091
    sdWS/48 = 0.052

    I created some t-test statistics (with which I assume your familiarity) for each player’s PER and WS/48. The t-statistics for Jrue’s PER and WS/48 are 10.12 and -2.24 respectively. Typically, with a sample size this large the industry standard level of significance would be 1%, however as I’m feeling generous I’ve allowed a 2% level of significance, giving critical values of -2.36 and +2.36.

    Thus, we can conclude that Jrue’s PER is better than league average, but we cannot conclude with confidence that his WS/48 is worse than league average because it falls inside the critical values. Hence, using these two advanced stats, the only concrete evidence we have is that Jrue is a better than average player.

    This is simple analysis and I’m sure is dwarfed by what you do, but I would be interested to know your thoughts on this.

    Have a great week,


Leave a Reply