Posted by: Tim Parker
01/23/13 4:44 pm EST

In an underwhelming, frustrating, and (so far) disappointment filled  season for the Philadelphia 76ers, there was been one thread that has held the fabric of the team together.  It’s been the all star candidate Jrue Holiday, who is having the best season of his career and quite frankly is the captain of a basketball ship treading through muddy water.  But, when that thread comes apart, and when the captain steers off course, the fabric tears itself and the ship finds itself completely lost.  There’s no better illustration of this then in the Sixers’ 110-102 loss to Milwaukee Bucks last night.

While, another Sixers loss was disheartening enough for a city starving for wins from anybody – anywhere (Villanova notwithstanding), Holiday’s failing performance in what was an all star selection audition against Brandon Jennings sunk their emotions even lower.

After all, if a basketball team is going to roam in the world of sub-mediocrity, at least it’d be nice to do so with an all star to boast about.  But, as Kyrie Irving cemented his all star spot with a 40 point outburst against the Celtics, Holiday looked  just as dull as the team he would represent in Houston, in their final game before all star reserves are announced. 


Meanwhile, Jennings (who was a fringe all star candidate at best), the selfish, score first point guard, who only sees the hoop and the ball, carried his Bucks in the second half as Holiday only looked like a spectator.  Holiday, the total opposite of a player such as Jennings, one who represents what a point guard should be, was outplayed by the gunner.  And for Jrue, it happened  to occur on the worse possible night.  Holiday went 3-12 from the field for only 9 points, though he did end up with 12 assists. 

Jennings had 25 points and dropped 7 dimes.  16 of those points came in the second half as Jennings proved to be key in the clutch, when it mattered most.  With the Sixers surging and trailing by only 5 in the middle of the fourth quarter, Jennings hit a three point dagger in the face of Thaddeus Young to put the Bucks up 88-80.  Later, in back-to-back possessions, Jennings was responsible for increasing the Bucks leading lead back up to 97-90 by driving to lane and scoring on one trip.  Then dishing the rock to his big man Larry Sanders on another. 

Holiday, on the other end, was ice cold and never got his scoring off the ground, from the tip-off to the end.  He had a critical, game icing turnover with 1:07 left in the 4th quarter with the Sixers down 101-94.  That was one of his 8 turnovers on a night that was ultimately a disaster for Jrue and the team.

Dishing out 12 assists is nice, cute and team oriented, but with a team devoid of special talent, Holiday, as the one true glue of the team, should have been more selfish and gotten himself into an offensive rhythm rather then trying to play into a flow of an offense that is simply without a flow.  It’s an offense that doesn’t even have a pulse.  In the Sixers’ case Holiday’s over willingness to share is not beneficial, not for this team.  The Bucks were probably quite satisfied in allowing Spencer Hawes to post 21 points, if the trade off meant that Holiday would be a turnover machine and only score 9.  After all, Hawes and the other bigs did nothing at all to stop Ersan Ilysova.  By the way, any effort from Andrew Bynum, when and if he returns, could propel the Sixers into a legitimate playoff team.  Though, that is a story for another day.

This story is about  Jrue Holiday.  A story that almost was guaranteed to include an all star trip, just doesn’t seem so sure anymore.  After all, Brandon Jennings and Monta Ellis are members of a playoff team, if the postseason began today, they both outplayed Holiday in a face to face match up, and Jennings (with Ilyasova’s help) took over the game when he had to. 

So, the question is simple.  Is Jrue Holiday an all star?  If his last two performances are any indication, the answer is a resounding no!  He came up small in the 4th quarter of a nationally televised contest, in which the Sixers had battled back put themselves in a position to win against a much better Spurs’ team.  On Tuesday night, he was microscopically small in a game that featured 2 candidates for an all star spot against him. 

But, has his body of work earned him a selection?  Should it earn him a selection?  Yes, he’s the captain guiding a ship through muddy water.  Yes, he’s the lone bright spot on a disappointing season.  But if he’s not good enough to at least put the Sixers in a position to chase a playoff spot, is Jrue Holiday really an all-star?




  1. Adam
    23. January 2013 at 17:19

    With this logic, kyrie irvong isnt an all stat either…. The cavs suuuck

  2. Steve Toll
    23. January 2013 at 18:28

    The 76ers are far worse than their 17-25 record.

    Thad is FAR more important than Jrue as indicated by pretty much every advanced stat except PER, and he is doing it while being handcuffed from shooting 3s where he shot 34.4% from downtown before DC arrived.

    Jrue gets praise for scoring with middling efficiency, controlling the ball more than any player in the NBA % wise and turning it over at an historic level.

    Nobody can watch every 76er game and honestly say that Jrue has been an All-Star

  3. Rick
    23. January 2013 at 19:22

    Why would Doug hold Thad back from shooting threes if he could shoot them? You see he lets spencer hawes shoot threes. Thad obviously doesn’t want to shoot threes, and he rather make his buckets in the paint and on the mid range shot. We already shoot to much, and your trying to get another player that actually tries to take it to the hoop sometimes, to turn into what iguadala wanted to be(three point specialist). If dorell wright, j-rich, and nick young actaully did their job and hit some threes, this wouldn’t even be a discussion. And this record doesn’t reflect how we are playing RIGHT NOW. But, if we actually played some D, we lost way more games we should have won than won games we should have loss. So I would have to disagree with you on that, it kind of evens itself out.

    One more thing, Doug made thad into this player you boast about today. Plus Thad went through that stretch in his career where he was trying to figure out who he was. If he felt he was a three point shooter he would have went down that route. He’s consistent because he takes it to the hoop and has a decent mid range jumper. If he started shooting threes he would not be as consistent.

  4. Oscar
    23. January 2013 at 20:41

    I have watched about 85% of our games this year, and I can definitely say that Jrue is playing like an All Star, and besides playing for a losing team, there is no reason why he shouldn’t make the All Star game. Irving plays for a worse team and he is considered a lock, correct? Also when you compared Holidays stats with other competitors that people fear may get the nod instead of Holiday, you see that Holiday has superior stats. He beats out Deron Williams (only 1 turn over p/g less), Ellis, Jennings, and Irving trades 4 less assists per game for 4 more points a game when you contrast his stats to Holidays. Not to mention, Irving has about 4 turnovers p/g as well. Just from a basic statistics stand point, you see that Holiday should be an All Star. When people watch him play, they see him as an All Star. I don’t understand how you can talk like he is the most mediocre player ever, and how Lowry and Colderon outplay him like Jrue is just crap. People can be subjective, but to be out of your mind…

  5. Oscar
    23. January 2013 at 20:45

    And to add to my last post. I do agree how Jrue should have stepped up against Jennings, both times, but in the grand scheme of things it really does look like Jrue should be an all star.

  6. Steve Toll
    23. January 2013 at 21:54


    Doug holds Thad back from 3s because he literally doesn’t understand simple math.

    A missed free throw by Mayo, a missed layup by Beasley, a slip by Rondo and a No-Call on SwaggyP…… This team is extremely fortunate to be 17-25.

    Thad has a decent midrange jumper, where did you get that idea from?????

    He is a career 37% shooter from 10-23 feet and don’t dig yourself into a deeper hole by saying “if he can only shoot 37% from there, how could he be a good 3pt shooter?”

  7. Rick
    24. January 2013 at 01:05


    So obviously if he shoots better from mid range(37%) than 3pt(34.4 “before doug”) by your numbers, why should he be shooting threes again? And we lost games such as the OKC game, the first chicago game, and the spurs game we should have won. Not to mention the teams below .500 we lost to such as detroit and cleveland we should have beat. We can go back and forth all day. But, the truth is we suck right now, you are right about that. We dont play any defense and we shoot jump shots until our arms are tired, with shooters that are very inconsistent. I believe we will be better with Bynum but if we cant get our act together we wont make the playoffs. I had us going 25-16 before last night for the rest of the season(that went to 14-26 if we play like we did last night), which would put us at 42-40. I dont know if that gets us into the playoffs or not but it will be close.

  8. Steve Toll
    24. January 2013 at 01:55


    I’m gonna take it real easy on you because you seem like you have a good heart.

    3 x .34 = 1.02

    2 x .37 = .74

    Which number is higher?

    In what world is this team going 25-16 the rest of the year, do you know something about Lebron getting traded here that I don’t?

    This team has had an easier than average strength of schedule, an even amount of home and away games, has won 40.5% of its game, while having what is
    the 5th worst ratio of Points Per Possession-Offense:PPP-Defense at MINUS 4.6

    25-16 as you projected before the Milwaukee game is winnings 61% of the remaining games.

    Chicago and Indiana are 4th-5th in the Eastern Conference winning 61% of their games. Both of those teams have played the entire season without Derrick Rose and Danny Granger.

    Even if Bynum returns on Saturday and the team wins 61% of its games, in a BEST CASE scenario, the 76ers are the 6th best team in the Eastern Conference

  9. funk
    24. January 2013 at 06:15


    34.4% from three is more efficient than 37 from mid range…

  10. tom
    24. January 2013 at 07:35

    what the sixers need to do is change things up. they need to move lavoy allen to the bench he is not a starter and ive been saying this for weeks now he is better when he comes off the bench. why doug collins hasnt moved spencer hawes to the starting center spot is beyond me he basically moved everyone else there i mean kwame brown has more starts then hawes. i think that would help the sixers get more of a fast start. also i really think they need to let arnett moultrie start getting some playing time they need help on the boards, im not saying he going to be an all star but he could give you a couple more boards a game. and to really switch things up and im just throwing this out there just to throw it out there because i think he has done a wonderful job and he should be starting but i would think about moving thad young back to the bench just for the simple fact that he gives you a spark off the bench that the sixers dont have this year. again just throwing it out there i think thad is going a great job and i love his effort but things arent working, sometimes you gotta take gambles and see what happens. its not like it could make things worse.

  11. Rob Y
    24. January 2013 at 09:51


    1) It’s obvious that Jrue is an All-Star caliber player but I would admit that I probably put Rondo, Irving, and DWill over him. Jrue is also second most valuable based on his age.

    2) Thad shooting 3’s is border-line retarded. You need to be at least a 36.5% 3 point shooter to be mediocre.

    3) ET still is a cancer. We should trade him for any team who thinks otherwise.

    4) Dorrell Wright and JRich are solid but take up too much cap. Lavoy Allen sucks. Hawes is a solid 6/7th man.

    5) Bynum is a risk and we can only pray that he gets healthy and scouts think he is as good of a center as they claim he is. My concerns with Bynum based of a recent Grantland article:

    “2008 Playoffs: Gasol, 39.7 MPG … Odom, 37.4 MPG … Bynum, 0.0 MPG
    2009 Playoffs: Gasol, 40.5 MPG … Odom, 32.0 MPG … Bynum, 17.4 MPG
    2010 Playoffs: Gasol, 39.8 MPG … Odom, 29.0 MPG … Bynum, 24.4 MPG” (Who knows how good he really is)

    Gasol is also simply in the wrong system and would be playing at All-Star caliber level in a different situation.

    “Game 4 of the 2009 Finals swung that series: Lakers 99, Magic 91 (overtime). Gasol played 49 minutes, Odom played 28 minutes, Bynum played 16 minutes.

    Game 6 of the 2010 Finals (backs to the wall against Boston): Gasol played 41 minutes (17 points, 13 rebounds, 9 assists), Odom played 28 minutes, Bynum played 16 minutes.

    Game 7 of the 2010 Finals (L.A. beats Boston in final minute): Gasol played 42 minutes (19 points, 18 rebounds), Odom played 35 minutes, Bynum played 19 minutes.”

    Overall, Bynum is a risky asset to have but has a chance of extreme upside, enough I believe, to give this team a top 5 shot of winning a championship for 4-5 years to come at a 10% probability and increasing as the Heat age and Knicks eventually collapse.

    I think we have value in Bynum to trade for a guy like Kevin Love/DMC/Marc Gasol/Noah/Hibbert/Horford/Bogut/Nene. Pretty broad but you get the general idea (either we throw in more or the other team throws in more pending on the person) and hope to strike gold in this year’s lottery.

  12. Rick
    24. January 2013 at 20:14


  13. Abc
    24. January 2013 at 20:27

    Well I guess it didn’t hurt him

  14. Chief Royster
    24. January 2013 at 23:11

    I have watched every Sixers game this year and jrue has been playing like an all star.. All other commentators believe it because being stationed away from Philly I have to watch my games on league pass and they can’t show Zumoff called games , so every game are the homers from the opposing team … And they all speak highly of jrue and have been calling an all star all along. Watching the games, you will see that when jrue is off the floor , the offense is stagnant and just flows horribly. Jrue deserves to be there and CONGRATS he’s there….

  15. Rick
    25. January 2013 at 01:31


    Im not even going to get into numbers and stats with you about this Thad shooting threes idea because its not a good idea and its not worth the argument/debate.

    About the record, I was going game by game and that is the number I came up with. I also stated that if we play the way we played last night we will go 14-26. If my records are so off base, what do you feel our record will be for the rest of the season? I really watch basketball so I’m not going by what the stats are projecting we will do, I’m going by what I see and what I know about the other teams.

    One more thing, can you congratulate Jrue Holiday on his all-star appearance? You treat Jrue like Skip Bayless treats Lebron. Give Jrue his respect for making the game, don’t bash him because you feel that he shouldn’t have made it.

  16. Harry
    25. January 2013 at 02:38

    I’m just happy it’s the opposing coaches who vote for all-star reserves and not Philly fans. 🙂 There’s no doubt Jrue has played like an all-star.

  17. Rob Y
    25. January 2013 at 09:34

    Bring in Larry Brown to coach!

    Steve Toll- if you had to guess the line on Sixers Knicks tomorrow, Sixers home, what do you think it would be? Let’s see little you know about basketball.

  18. Rob Y
    25. January 2013 at 10:16

    Sixers are only overperforming by 1 game this year(17-25) –
    Here is why (if you can follow basic math, this makes sense):

    1) We should be 16-26 given our +/- is -4/game which means on average we are 38% to win each game (A 4pt underdog is 38% to win a game; thus, 0.38 x 42 games played = 16 wins).

    2) Not taking into account the few games Jrue has missed, we’re about as expected. Most players seem to be performing as expected but Dorrell Wright. Throw in a slight improvement in the future on his end and we can be at least a 40%, or 33 win team w/o Bynum.

    3) Bynum had a WS/48 (Wins added per 48 minutes played) of .183 last year. If he can play ~35 min/game thats roughly .133 WS/35 (35/48 x .183 = 0.133). From this, one can estiamte Bynum adds roughly 5.33 wins above replacement with replacement being 0.10 WS/48.

    4) Assuming Lavoy Allen (the replacement) is may a win below replacement for the season (0.95 WS/48 career and 0.077 WS/48 this year or 0.7 WS/35 for the year), that shows the Sixers should be about 6 wins better with a healthy Bynum or a 46-36 record (58%).

    5) This record is even less than Steve Toll was arguing (48-34) but we’re also better now than he suggests too. Given the fact he underrates Bynum in general, his entire logic is completely off. If he really thought Bynum was underrated, he would put our team having less than 46 wins for the year.

    For the love of (whatever you love/worship), can we please finally put Toll’s retardedness to rest and starting #showingyaluv for Philly. Amen.

  19. LarryM
    25. January 2013 at 10:22

    It would actually by nice to have an intelligent advanced stats oriented perspective on the site. Too bad Steve is a blithering idiot who discredits such an approach.

    With the team just 3 games out of the playoffs now, and Bynum likely to return reasonably soon, this looks like a playoff team. One could argue that missing the playoffs would be a better outcome, but it seems to me that, if Bynum returns reasonably soon, that is the most likely outcome.

    The Holiday hate is, of course, beyond all reason at this point.

  20. Rob Y
    25. January 2013 at 10:24

    This is idealized but assuming Celtics continue their 47% win percentage and if Bynum came back today, Sixers would finish with a 48% win percentage if Bynum could play 35min/game. In general, given the volatility, there is a chance we make 8 seed.

  21. Rob Y
    25. January 2013 at 10:29

    *****5) This record is even less than Steve Toll was arguing (48-34) but we’re also better now than he suggests too. Given the fact he underrates Bynum in general, his entire logic is completely off. If he really thought Bynum was underrated, he would put our team having less than 46 wins for the year.

    *****Sorry Steve, meant to say if you thought Bynum was overrated******

  22. Steve Toll
    25. January 2013 at 12:14


    You don’t want to get into a debate and Thad shooting 3s because you will lose. If you’ve been reading my articles, you’ll notice how much opposition I have had from the beginning!

    Where did all those people go? They’re still around but they don’t comment nearly as much or at all because it’s no fun to lose debates over and over, even on the internet with total anonymity.

    Are you serious with the 16-25 comment? You previously said that you had them going 25-16 BUT if they play like they did against Milwaukee, they’d go 14-26. That makes 0 sense when you consider that it might not be UNTIL March for the team to get to 25 wins total, among other plainly obvious variables.

  23. Rob Y
    25. January 2013 at 13:55

    We can’t sign any body if we have Bynum. This is the trade I propose:

    I think we could keep Bynum just cause his upside is really the only way we win. I’m still not fully convinced his upside is as good as everyone says it is and he’s playing hurt/is a huge risk factor

    1) Another option that could work out long term:

    Try to trade for Marc Gasol or Al Horford: both are 5’s and there isn’t one player in the league who overmatches them besides maybe Bynum when he’s healthy.

    Jrue/Wright/Thad/Hawes/Horford or Marc Gasol, is worse than Jrue/Wright/Thad/Hawes/Bynum if you give up Bynum straight up for one of those two C’s.

    HOWEVER, I think if we gave up Bynum, ET, and Wright we could get a guy like Rudy Gay with Marc Gasol or Horford.

    Get a Jrue/Gay/Thad/Hawes/Horford or Marc Gasol lineup and have the same cap with a cheaper center. We can get an unwanted Gay for a lot of $ but clear cap getting rid of ET and Wright or JRich.

    Jrue/Gay/Thad/Hawes/Horford or Marc Gasol are all under 26 and are healthy. Bench is weak in Lavoy/Swaggy/Ivey but that’s a pretty cool team.


    Marc Gasol is also surrounded by Zach Randolph (would put up bigger numbers than 13-7 without Randolph). Horford (getting 16-10) is surrounded by Josh Smith/Pachulia (good rebounders).

    Bynum had similar stats to Marc Gasol for 4 years (with slightly less usage) until Mike Brown decided to shift Bynum into the dominant role where he and Pau Gasol became somewhat dysfunctional last year.

    In a perfect world, this could happen. If we sign Larry Brown and our team is what I mentioned above (Jrue/Gay/Thad/Hawes/Horford or Marc Gasol with a SwaggyP, Lavoy, Ivey, Wilkins, and Moultire bench) that is a contender. (Jrue/Wright/Thad/Hawes/Bynum with JRich, ET, SwaggyP, Lavoy, Ivey, Wilkins is too but Bynum needs to be healthy).

    If anything it looks better than the Chauncy/Rip/Tayshaun/Wallace/Wallace championship team Larry Brown coached in ’04-’05.

  24. Steve Toll
    25. January 2013 at 14:30


    Who has been more spot on about the 76ers than I have? You can pick anyone on Earth, just make sure to cite your claim with relevant articles and the like.


    Your math is terrible but I enjoy what you write, it makes me laugh.

    The teams point differential is actually -4.2 and in reality, it’s far worse then that

  25. Steve Toll
    25. January 2013 at 15:42

    Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, seriously, Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    ATL has no reason to trade Horford for Bynum. Horford is actually a 4 who plays 5. Please give 1 reason why ATL makes that trade, all things considered.

    Memphis isn’t gonna risk taking on Bynum. Rudy Gay is massively overrated, he makes max money and isn’t close to a max player. Wright is more valuable than Rudy Gay when you consider contracts.

    This is my favorite part thought:
    “In a perfect world, this could happen. If we sign Larry Brown and our team is what I mentioned above (Jrue/Gay/Thad/Hawes/Horford or Marc Gasol with a SwaggyP, Lavoy, Ivey, Wilkins, and Moultire bench) that is a contender. (Jrue/Wright/Thad/Hawes/Bynum with JRich, ET, SwaggyP, Lavoy, Ivey, Wilkins is too but Bynum needs to be healthy).

    If anything it looks better than the Chauncy/Rip/Tayshaun/Wallace/Wallace championship team Larry Brown coached in ’04-’05.”


  26. Rob Y
    25. January 2013 at 15:53

    Steve Toll,

    Prove to me and to everyone how my math is off.

    1) I would like to continue a friendly debate with you as I appreciate your passion, but I am afraid that I have come to the realization that I have wasted my time arguing with an unintelligent, stubborn person based on your writing.
    2) I hope one day you gain enlightenment from your brainless, arrogant state of being.
    3) I only direct this hard truth to you so you may one day come to a self-realization that you lack a logical and intelligent thought process. Your current reality is a false one and you may one day be able to find a happier path through humility, patience, and a search for an understanding of truth.

    All the best,

    Rob Y

  27. Rick
    25. January 2013 at 15:59


    Like I said I don’t want to get into a discussion about that because its a bad idea and Thad already doesn’t shoot threes because he knows its a bad idea so I already won.

    My record went from 25-16 to 14-26 because I had us winning games against teams like the Bucks(last night included), Boston, Atlanta, Utah, etc. But, I quickly turned those into losses if we don’t play up to our potential. I think that completely makes sense. We are not getting blown out every night, a lot of these games can go either way. So, I believe if we played up to our potential these close games would go our way. My question I asked before, what do you feel our record will be?

    As a side note I am a huge sixers fan. So I will look at our situation from the most optimistic point of view first. I will definitely be “real”, but I am looking at how we can be better an improve to be good. Instead of looking at it as we are horrible and we can punch in losses for these next three games. I will look at it saying if we do these certain things we can win, but if we dont we will lose. Just like basketball players/coaches do. Do you think they go into games against OKC, Miami, and the Spurs, saying oh we’re going to lose this game let’s not play hard. No, so why should I? I’ll give them ways they can win and if they don’t do those things there will be an obvious outcome. Stats are cool, but sometimes it just comes down to plain old effort and heart. Which are team is definitely lacking in right now.

  28. Rick
    25. January 2013 at 16:22

    Rob Y,

    I like the way your thinking about the trade with Horford and Gasol, but we still would not have a bench. We wouldn’t have a backup point guard still, we wouldn’t have a backup three, or a backup center coming off the bench. God forbid if one of those starters go down the seasons over. Having a bench is a key in this NBA today which I feel is why we were as successful as we were last year. Even teams with the best starting 5s in OKC, the Spurs, and Miami have ok/good benches. Or at least players that know their role and are very consistent in their role.

    Watching some of that phoenix game, I like that boy Markeiff Morris. His stats aren’t the most impressive, but being that he’s a 6’10 2nd year player, I feel that he has some good upside. I have to watch some more games, but from what I saw yesterday I will be willing to trade for him and one of their guards as our starting power forward and backup point guard. Maybe have Thad come off the bench to give us a spark off the bench.

  29. Abc
    25. January 2013 at 17:36


    People stop commenting because of your ignorance and stubbornness. They can only lead you to water. Btw since jrues an Allstar, have a nice time defending your smartest person in the world claim. I know you never said this, but the way you talk makes anyone think thhis

  30. LarryM
    25. January 2013 at 18:08


    With an unhealthy Bynum, there’s been no test of how “right” you (and others) were or weren’t. No one thought they were going to be any good without Bynum, no one knows how good they would have been with him. The fact that Bynum hasn’t played all year doesn’t “vindicate” you or anyone’s negativity. If I predicted that, against all conventional wisdom, that Miami would fall flat on its face, and them Lebron got injured, I wouldn’t be able to claim that I was right because the team didn’t succeed without James. Obviously not an exact comparison for obvious reasons, but the principle is the same – you lose your best player, and OF COURSE you’re not going to be as good.

    You’ve been right about a few things, but they are the things that virtually every smart fan was right about. Yes, Nick Young and Kwame Brown stink. Film at eleven. You get SOME credit for calling it on Turner, but not much – plenty of people were saying the same things about him preseason. (And even so, he has been a little better than you thought he would be, though I agree it is mainly a product of more playing time and a likely unsustainable 3 point %).

    You were wrong – dead wrong – about Holiday, and your continuing efforts to obscure that fact by denying his significant improvement are increasingly pathetic. You’re like the Wizard of Oz at the end, “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.” Pathetic.

    But why am I wasting my breath? I’ve run into plenty of people like you, cocky mediocrities convinced they are so much more, no self awareness, not smart enough to realize how much they don’t know, just smart enough to do some basic analysis and make a coherent argument, but with no critical thinking skills to speak of. A type that is unable to ever, ever admit, even to himself, that he might be wrong.

  31. LarryM
    25. January 2013 at 18:13

    And your almost insane over valuation of AI2, who I like as a player but who was never as good as your absurd commentary would have it, while obviously at some level not provable or disprovable by events, is looking even more ridiculous given his performance this year in Denver.

  32. Steve Toll
    25. January 2013 at 19:41

    RobY actually wrote this everyone, enjoy a good laugh

    : “In a perfect world, this could happen. If we sign Larry Brown and our team is what I mentioned above (Jrue/Gay/Thad/Hawes/Horford or Marc Gasol with a SwaggyP, Lavoy, Ivey, Wilkins, and Moultire bench) that is a contender. (Jrue/Wright/Thad/Hawes/Bynum with JRich, ET, SwaggyP, Lavoy, Ivey, Wilkins is too but Bynum needs to be healthy).

    If anything it looks better than the Chauncy/Rip/Tayshaun/Wallace/Wallace championship team Larry Brown coached in ’04-’05.”


    ATL and MEM are never doing those trades, please don’t encourage RobY.
    When you say “plain old effort and heart” with regards to the 76ers potentially beating superior teams what you really mean is “Variance”

    I am the self professed best 76er writer in the world and with all my haters, that claim has yet to be refuted with any evidence. I’m still waiting to read someone better.

    I’m happy for Jrue that he made the All-Star team but I am also sad for him. The countdown to him being seen in his true form and becoming hated for not making the 76ers a contender has now started.


    Sick amount of logical fallacy

    1. Nobody thought the 76ers would be any good without Bynum.
    Answer: Some people said without Bynum this team is better than last year

    How much impact do you expect Bynum to have? Read this and then respond

    Chicago lost Asik, Brewer, Korver this offseason and Rose hasn’t played this year, they are winning 61% of its games compared to 76% last year. Indiana has played without Danny Granger and Roy Hibbert has a bum wrist, they are winning 60.5% of its games, compared to 64% last year.

    Jrue is what he is, get over it

    When people take jabs at me, like you are, I just laugh bro. U MAD. Can’t beat me in a talk about basketball, want to attack someone they don’t know. Nobody cares about what you think of me, it’s my writing you should criticize. And considering the weakness you have brought, you might want to self evaluate.

    Come at the King, best not miss

  33. Abc
    25. January 2013 at 20:26

    That’s my point. You’re too arrogant to look at other people’s point of views. You use too many absolutes. If you we’re willing to admit that you’re predictions and assessments had room for error, not as many people would dislike you. But for some reason, you try to prove that we are all stupid, and that you’re the only smart person in the world. That’s why nobody likes you or your writing.

  34. LarryM
    25. January 2013 at 22:15


    You know, if I struggled for weeks to come with with detailed analysis to support what I said in the last paragraph of my 18:08 post, I couldn’t have done a better job than you did yourself with your (incredibly non-self aware) 19:41 post. Thanks.

    And … I should stop at that. You’re impervious to this stuff (I bet your the kind of guy who wakes up the morning after making a drunken fool of himself with no regrets whatsoever), and no one else around here takes you seriously. But on the substance:

    (1) Wow, talk about a straw man. Name ONE PERSON, aside from idiots in some comment section, who made the absurd argument that the team even without Bynum was better than last year’s team. In the unlikely event that you can find someone who said something like that, I will agree that that person is, indeed, even more of an idiot than you are. But in the real world in which we live, 99.9% of all fans, and 100% of all intelligent fans, realized that the team needed Bynum to be improved this year.

    (2) Chicago, with Rose, was a team that could have won a championship. Without Rose, they aren’t even close. Yes, they are better without Rose than the Sixers are without Bynum. And Chicago WITH Rose was better than the Sixers with Bynum. No one with any sense thought or argued differently. No one was anointing the team serious contenders for a championship when they added Bynum. They said they would be improved. Which they would have been. (You can also argue that Chicago did a much better job of filling out the roster, beyond their “impact” players, than did the Sixers. And some credit is due for that, you did sort of make that argument. But again, you were far from alone. Not many people applauded the Nick Young signing.)

    (3) Indiana – Hibbert’s played most of the year at close to his career standards. Granger didn’t play the central role for Indiana that Bynum would have played for the Sixers. Also, and this is a classic, classic case of you picking and choosing the statistical evidence to support your argument, their scoring differential is down a lot more than their win%.

    Of course, if I wanted to waste even more time on this, I could easily find a dozen counter examples of teams that cratered because of injuries. But it’s pointless, really – not only is this an argument that I don’t think YOU even believe, but it is besides the point. You miss the basic logic that YOU DON’T GET TO CLAIM VINDICATION WHEN THE PROPOSITION WAS NEVER TESTED. You’re calling ME illogical? That’s like Hitler calling Ghandi a mass murderer.

    (4) You punted on Holiday, as expected, because you have no case. What’s particularly hilarious about Holiday is that, as with some other of your favorites (or non-favorites), you pick and choose the advanced stats you use to support your subjective case. Talk about discrediting advanced stats.

    As someone who, in the baseball context, is a BIG proponent of advanced stats, I REALLY hate to see them misused by people like you who destroy their credibility.

  35. LarryM
    25. January 2013 at 22:38

    And to clarify what’s implied … Steve, it isn’t even a case that everything you say is nonsense. About 1/3 is decent commentary (little of which, though, is terribly original), 1/3 has some truth behind it but is exaggerated, and 1/3 of it is howling nonsense. And let’s face it, there’s plenty of nonsense in the comment sections of sports blogs, heck I’ll even damn you with faint praise by saying that your percentage of nonsense may be a little lower than the average casual fan (not so much around here, where the commentary tends to be a little more informed).

    But here’s the thing Steve. You hold yourself out as some sort of expert, and the people who run this site have even seen fit at times to let you post blog entries, not just comments. By those standards you are … a blithering idiot. That you are an arrogant blithering idiot just adds a little spice to the meal.

  36. Steve Toll
    25. January 2013 at 22:51

    That’s your opinion


    If either of you want to provide links to someone more accurate about the 76ers, please link me up.

  37. Gordon
    26. January 2013 at 07:58

    Why do people still arhue with this guy? Any well informed fan knows he is dumb, and I think espn is figuring it out too as i haven’t seen an incredibly idiotic article from him in a while or maybe i am just skipping them. He makes basic obvious claims that most fans from philly already know but dont want to admit and then gets super happy when they happen. we knew it already we just were trying to have faith in our team, you need 20 websites and 10 pages of stats to figure out something obvious to every fan… nice. But really makes me laugh is how when your wrong you just completely bypass your mistakes like they never happened. Chicago and Indiana is your argument for the sixers? lets see Indiana has West, George, Hibbert still. Chicago has Deng, Noah, Boozer still are you noticing something here take your time go look at a website to help you figure it out we’ll wait…. Your claims are just so basic, you remind me of a someone who just started watching sports and goes and looks everything up and then claims how right they are that the stuff they spent all their time researching came true and everyone else just knows because they actually watch the sport. Your credibility always takes shots when you talk but here are the ones for this week.
    1) Comparing Chicago and Indiana to the Sixers both have atleast 2 other allstars or allstar candidates and both have 2 legitimate big men.
    2)Calling yourself the King…Lmao joke enough said in itself.
    3)your entire assessment of Jrue Holiday everyone else in basketball, the real actual experts, the fans, and now even the coaches understand how good he is and how great he can become but you… you still want calderon and vasquez LMAO your are the funniest expert i have ever read.
    4)Thad young is great. I like that you like Thad but once again you are perpetually dumb when it comes to basketball reasons why thad isnt on the 3pt line are as follows. He shoots 34% below average, we are already starved for rebounds and putting our PF outside the arc does not help that discrepancy, Thad is not a consistent jump shooter he is most effective slashing and being active at the rim and last but not least is floor spacing richardson or nick young are at the 3pt line with Jrue and Evan is usually in a corner or long/midrange if you bring your PF to the 3pt line its too crowded rotations are too easy and you will never get clean looks. If bynum was in the linup and you could throw it down to him it might work or if Evan went mid/lowpost but would you put evan down there when he has be shooting deadly from 3 for 34%. No you wouldn’t. Please as a Sixer fan I ask you go write for someone else that has need of a good laugh in Philly we are serious about basketball and you are a joke. We have enough negativity already just watching we know what the problems with Sixer basketball is but you never have a legitimate solution or intelligent you just knock everyone else and repeat all the bad things we already congrats for whatever accomplishment that is. To the Fans we know he’s dumb i know it aggravates alot to hear a person so dumb try to be so smart but just let it go and maybe he will just go away… Thad shooting 3s HAHAHA talking about Chicago and Indiana is Boozer shooting 3s? How about David West? when Thad shoots like dirk or Love i will endorse him at the 3pt line

  38. Abc
    26. January 2013 at 09:45

    I think that several of the writers, such as hank, on this website are more accurate than you are.

  39. Steve Toll
    27. January 2013 at 13:48

    I don’t care about your opinion, if you won’t back it up, by making vague statements.
    Please provide links of articles from other writers with details about what is better, along with info from my articles that is wrong that was correct in other people’s articles.
    I am looking to improve my stuff, so any help would be great.


    Sand, you should pound it

  40. Abc
    28. January 2013 at 14:09

    Your not looking to improve your stuff. You won’t listen to anyone who tries to give you advise. I advised you to stop using absolutes to no avail, which just shows your stubbornness, which is my point. So anything I show you wouldn’t help you because your are blinded by your arrogance and stubbornness. Many of the commenters make valid points, although ill admit some are just as stupid. So I don’t think anything I show you will change your stubborn mind.

  41. Steve Toll
    28. January 2013 at 21:53


    Ill wait for you to provide evidence to your previous comments, but I doubt it will happen.

    Topic changes and excuses dont fly with me, consider yourself grounded

  42. Abc
    29. January 2013 at 07:30

    Well Steve, I guess ignorance is bliss for you. And I don’t have time to look for article and detail why it’s so much better even if it worked. But I’ll tell you the writers I like. I like bill Simmons, some of the writers on this website, and Chris Ballard( or at least I liked his duncan article).

  43. Abc
    31. January 2013 at 16:02

    Looks like I won the debate!!!!!!

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