Posted by: C. Smith
01/29/13 9:27 am EST
Memphis Grizzlies 103 FinalRecap | Box Score 100 Philadelphia 76ers
Thaddeus Young, SF 40 MIN | 11-19 FG | 1-2 FT | 7 REB | 2 AST | 4 STL | 1 BLK | 0 TO | 23 PTS | +5

Forget about his tremendous stats for a second and look at the fact that Thad held Z-Bo to 4 points last night.  I dropped him to an A- because of the ill-advised 3PA down the stretch and the fact that he faded away on that last possession when he should have gone strong to the tin for a lay-in and/or to get a foul.

Evan Turner, SF 40 MIN | 12-18 FG | 3-4 FT | 3 REB | 7 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 27 PTS | +5

One of his best nights of the season and in the 3rd Q he was tremendous, but…(more on this after the jump)

Spencer Hawes, C 36 MIN | 4-7 FG | 0-0 FT | 4 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 8 PTS | -3

I need more from my starting center, but as far as Hawes goes this was a decent outing vs. a much bigger front line.  Still his defense on Gasol was pitiful.

Jrue Holiday, PG 40 MIN | 9-19 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 10 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 4 TO | 18 PTS | -2

A double-double is nice, but he hoisted up too many jumpers last night.  I thought he and the Sixers would learn from the NYK game, but I was wrong.  His defense on Bayless also left something to be desired.

Nick Young, SG 33 MIN | 5-13 FG | 1-1 FT | 2 REB | 1 AST | 1 STL | 1 BLK | 1 TO | 13 PTS | -4

A red-hot 1st Q (9 points) did not lead to a big not from Swaggy.  I need more from my starting SG. But that’s something I have been saying for years now while covering the Sixers

Lavoy Allen, PF 8 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 2 PTS | -2

Anyone want to bet that Lavoy is dealt at the deadline?

Kwame Brown, C 11 MIN | 1-1 FG | 1-2 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 0 TO | 3 PTS | +1

We have a Kwame sighting and outside of dropping two passes that would have led to sure fire dunks, he played well.  So on the Kwame curve he gets a “B”.

Royal Ivey, PG 17 MIN | 2-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 3 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 6 PTS | -4

A very solid night from Royal (with cheese).  He was especially huge in the early 4th Q when he drained a 3PA and then had a steal and dime that led to a Thad slam.

Damien Wilkins, SG 15 MIN | 0-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | -8

Last night the jump shot disease even infected the most physical player on the Sixers.

Doug Collins

I liked that he stuck with the “new” starting five.  I also liked that he got Jrue some extra rest with a 15 point lead in the 1st Q.  I didn’t like that he rested the red-hot Turner in the early 4th.  And I did not see any adjustments to slow down Gasol who was simply killing the Sixers.

After the Jump, Six Things We Saw Last Night…

1.  I’m going to jump right to the awful ending of this one so we can just take our medicine and get it over with…The Sixers shot 1-6 down the stretch and that’s because they settled for jump shots (three 3PAs) instead of taking the ball to the tin.  But you know what they say, “It’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks.”  1st Turner double-dribbled (didn’t get called) then launched a 3PA; next Thad jacked up a 3PA (He’s now 0-3 on the year.); that was followed by an ill-advised shot by Jrue; Swaggy missed a 3PA and finally, Thad missed the bunny (faded away on it) at the end.  Just terrible execution and shot selection down the stretch in a game that was there for the taking.

2.  Here’s some more medicine..The Sixers defense was like a roller coaster last night.  They came out strong on D, but then took the 2nd Q and most of the 3rd Q off.  They finally strapped up and guarded some people from the late 3rd through most of the 4th.  Still they had some fundamental breakdowns in the 4th that just killed them.  They allowed Gasol to do whatever he wanted all night.  How many times was simply left wide open to pop a jumper?  Jrue and our other guards allowed Bayless to score a season high 21.  At times they made Bayless look like the All-Star back-court guy on the floor.  Not a solid all-around effort on defense last night.

3.  However in the 1st Q, the Sixers gave us some false hope that they had finally turned the corner on this season.  On the strength of light out shooting, the Sixers had their highest-scoring first quarter of the season.  They made 12 of their first 14 shots, including two 3s by Nick Young, and raced to a 17-point lead.  A team that usually struggles out of the gate the Sixers made their first seven shots and led 33-20 at the end of the quarter.

4.  While I love the offensive spark the new first five is providing for the Sixers, they simply don’t pass the eye test defensively.  In Hawes and Swaggy you have two very weak defenders on the floor to go along with Turner (average defender); Thad (solid & improving) and Jrue (good defender).  That’s simply not enough of a defensive presence for my tastes and I think it will be an issue for the Sixers down the road.

5.  Talk about a game of runs…Obviously the Sixers were on fire in the 1st Q and led by 17 at one point.  Memphis made a big push in the 2nd Q and cut the lead to 8.  The 7-6 responded with a 7-0 run, but the Grizz were too hot in the 2nd Q (hit on 15 of 16 possessions) and led at half by 3.  In the 3rd Q the Sixers used a 15-3 to be tied at 79 starting the 4th.  The Grizz opened the 4th with a 7-2 run.  The Sixers responded with a 6-0 run of their own. Of course the Grizz had the last say and closed this one out with a 6-0 run.

6.  Here’s what I have decided on Turner.  If his basketball IQ ever improves he could be a hell of an NBA player.  For the most part he played a very nice game and absolutely carried the 7-6 in the 3rd Q, but over the course of this game he sprinkled in at least 4 bone-headed mistakes that a 4th grade player wouldn’t commit.  During the 1st Q ET stupidly turned the ball over on a couple of trips.  In the 3rd Q, ET ran two terrible break outs where he went C2C and then put up an awful shot.  On one of those breaks he was 1-on-4 and still put up a shot.  Of course his ridiculous 3PA in the 4th also drove me crazy.  If he could eliminate this infuriating garbage from his game, the Sixers could be in business


59 Responses to “GM 43: (ROLLER COSTER ) RAPID REACTS”

  1. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 10:22

    At what point will Thad be recognized as the best player on the team when it is so obvious

    Jrue outplayed again, not surprising as it tends to happen more than HALF the time.

    ET had a great game (and previous couple games( but was HORRIBLE from an “expected value” point of view. He sucks except for the rare occassion he when gets hot. Hitting 8-11 from the midrange isn’t exactly sustainable.

    I can’t crush Hawes as Gasol made 0 baskets within 8ft. I blame DC for not preparing him for a game against such a unique offensive player. Hawes rebounding wasn’t quite as terrible as the 4 rebounds would indicate

    SwaggyP, you are just awful. The dribble between the legs fadeaway jumper makes my eyes bleed but because its so beautiful and so horrible at the same time.

    Royal Ivey continues his career year.

    Dorell Wright, who is at worst the teams 3rd best player, DNP-CD, LOL

    If anyone is wondering why Arnett Moultrie isn’t playing, at 10:30pm last night he was waltzing into Delilahs. Not ragging n the guy for that, I enjoy some adult entertainment myself, but seriously, he couldn’t of hit the weight room or taken some shots after the game instead of running out of the WFC ASAP. I get the feeling he is just happy to be in the NBA…

    I would NOT do this trade because of how important the lottery is this year but a trade of Kwame and Lavoy + Cash (up to $3,000,000 total per year) + 2nd rd picks for Samuel Dalembert. makes the team a whole helluva lot better.

    Would Utah do Thad+Hawes+J-Rich+$$$ for Al Jefferson+Bell? Bell isn’t even with the team, he’s actually banned

    It would give the 76ers $18,000,000ish in additional cap space if Bynum is resigned and $32,000,000 if Bynum signs with another team. While losing Thad totally sucks, J-Rich is an albatross of sorts and everyone hates Hawes.

  2. Tom
    29. January 2013 at 10:51

    I don’t know why DC is having Jrue run down the clock after 2 mins when we’re only up 3. We have a higher % of TOs doing that than just moving the ball normally. Just gave this one away

  3. Mike
    29. January 2013 at 11:21

    Jrue definitely did get outplayed last night. Although it is a promising game, this loss was the worst of the year in my opinion. We were looking so good. Not being able to score once they hit a 100 was terrible. Thaddeus can’t shoot 3’s and he knows that. Why did he take that

  4. Larry Smith
    29. January 2013 at 11:43

    TOLL i will not respond to u this time since u no nothing about BBALL. ILL move on, holiday gets killed by young guards hes only good against old on there way out the league guards. Doug is blind or no something u dont no about DW he is what he is, no where the third best maybe 15th or worse.

  5. Rob h
    29. January 2013 at 11:44

    How often does Thad get outplayed Steve? And I’m not asking for advanced stats how many games has the opposing 4 out rebounded him? He’s not a good defender at the 3 or the 4, and what is it every game they out score us in the paint, get more rebounds than the other team, and shoot more free throws than us. Thad is a good player but not the best player on the team he’s 3rd if you count Bynum. No team in this league would go out of their way to trade for Thad, no matter what his advanced stats say…. He is a undersized change of pace 4 that is not quick enough, nor a good enough shooter to play the 3, on most teams he is the 6th man at best, and I know that a knock on the sixers talent level but as you constantly say about jrue he’s in your opinion the best player on a 8 games under .500 team. Or does that statement only apply to jrue. You are quick to post right away if jrue has a bad game that happens over the course of an 82 game season. You say jrue’s been outplayed half the time, well since the team is under .500 I’d say that the whole team has been outplayed more than half the time, but I forgot about your general bias for jrue again, sorry about that. If future players think about signing with the sixers wouldn’t you give me at least they would like to play with a 22 year old first time all-star(picked by the coaches, so you swung and missed with your Philadelphia is the 5th most populated city argument) or will they want to play with that over-paid undersized power forward who they can’t remember his name?

  6. Rob h
    29. January 2013 at 11:47

    Not to mention Thad should looks eons better than the group of bigs we have now, and he does not, if I’m not mistaken et out rebounds him most nights but that can’t count against him. Thad will never ever ever average 19 and 9 anything, and that should be easy considering how bad the rest of our team is since you think we are a bottom 3 team with Bynum.

  7. Rob Y
    29. January 2013 at 12:09

    “I don’t know why DC is having Jrue run down the clock after 2 mins when we’re only up 3. We have a higher % of TOs doing that than just moving the ball normally. Just gave this one away.” Amen.

    You simply CANNOT be content with any lead in the NBA and slow down. Overall, I still think we should’ve won this game considering the Grizz went 8-13. Otherwise, we have no excuse to lose this game after getting a 1/100 1Q performance with ET having the best shooting performance of his career (it will probably be his best game ever). No chance Bayless ever plays that well again this season even if Conley is out – you could argue he outplayed Jrue but its not sustainable. Grizz also got a lot of help from a weak bench.

    Nonetheless, we are looking promising after the big Knicks win (Knicks also beat ATL), and we competed with a tough Memphis squad. Gotta capitalize on our next 6 home games if we want a shot at the 8 seed. Also, Bynum will play how many regular season games this year???

    Still really wish we would’ve played Moultrie, would’ve been able to catch those two freebies for dunks insted of Kwame who literally looks like he couldn’t care less to be playing. It is truly an embarrasment- He could pass for a special needs giant.

    I just hope the Raptors don’t get Rudy Gay otherwise the 8 spot b/w us and Boston will include Toronto and probably the Magic.

    I like the trade for Dalembert a lot. Lavoy is complete garbage who also looks like he couldn’t care less. Don’t understand how people hopped on his bandwagon last season after a weak regular season and solid 4 playoff games.

    I think unless we play Dorrell Wright (why the hell are we not playing him?), we simply need to sacrifice some defense by playing SwaggyP (who, might I add, had a couple nice blocks last night and if he’s shooting well, he’ll try harder on the other end of the floor to a passable level).

    Jrue settled for WAY too many outside shots and is just an absolute mechanic at dribbling through the D and getting to the rim. I think his responsibility on D tires him out too much at the offensive end. Let’s pray Ivey can continue to shoot the lights so we can contend.

    I wouldn’t hate on Wilkins on that game – missed two shots including a tough reverse that was the smart play to make (could’ve been fouled).

  8. Max
    29. January 2013 at 12:31

    Did anyone realize that when wilkins was in for the most part he wasnt guarding Gay?!?! Thats the only reason he should be out there to guard the best play swingman on the opponents team! Makes no sense! Also, Wright only had a ridiculous game the last time we played the grizz so it makes sense not to play him at all.

  9. ms. haygood
    29. January 2013 at 12:59

    DC should receive an F for this game, IMO the loss is on him because of some head-scratching decisions. Watching the game no doubt heading into the 4th quarter ET had the hot hand but he sits and Ivey comes in and a tied score quickly went to 5, then coming down the stretch he doesn’t see the ball. ET is not the best player but he had it going a lil last night and should’ve gotten some plays run for him. Sometimes in a TEAM sport you go with the hot hand. Hawes should have sat for the last 3mins because of his inability to grab a darn rebound, that killed us coming down the stretch, Brown should have been re-inserted and who knows.
    Mr. Smith uses a whole paragraph to explain ET’s bonehead plays, but Jrue’s play at the end of the game was just as awful, and this is a guy who has been playing the PG position all his life and still cannot make the right decisions down the stretch, I’m not sure if it’s his fault or DC’s lack of coaching. And I don’t care if he’s 22, the guys been in league for a few years now, make the right play already!!!!Not to mention how good Bayless looked against him…
    All I could do was SMH at this one last night. it’s become downright painful.

  10. freezer
    29. January 2013 at 13:05

    Good game, I think dougs switching to a new rotation to prepare the squad to play with Bynum and I for one cannot wait to see what this team looks like with a rebounding advantage.

    BTW Steve Tollare you Milton Friedman and skip bayless love child or something, Bayless had a good 2nd quarter that was it, got shut down in the 4th. Your trades idea is embarassingly bad. That Utah trade would destroy the team and set us back god knows how many years. Why would you propose to make a trade for another center whos a free agent next year especially when Bynums supposed to be back within the month and include according to you our best player.

    Also how are you going to vilify someone for doing something in the same sentence you admit you like todo youself, dont be that guy dude. Ive seen sixers at bars before to, people in there early 20’s tend to go out at night.

  11. gabe
    29. January 2013 at 13:06

    last several possessions we waited til like 10 seconds left on the shot clock to set a pick for jrue. we played the game not to lose at the end instead of looking to make the knockout punches (i.e. early offense)

    turner had his best game of the season. i’m liking the new starting lineup. marc gasol was just on fire.

    jrue definitely should;ve done better defensively, he settled for too many jumpers and went through a rough stretch for a while, but hit two big shots towards the end of the game and made what i thought was the right play hitting thad in the paint at the end of the game.

    would i have been mad to see jrue shoot it? absolutely not.

    toll. seriously man u just pick n choose your games to come on here and talk trash.

    didn’t see u on here after jrue torched everyone that tried to cover him against the knicks.

    i am confident i would beat u 11-0 in a game of one on one.


  12. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 13:08

    Rob H,

    You are a worse version of RobY. Keep believing whatever it is you think that it is. Thad is by far the teams best player and Jrue is average. Wait until Thad misses a game or 2, then you’ll have nothing to say. Until then, just keep laying in the grass.

    What free agents will Jrue attract considering the team has 0 cap space going forward whether it’s Bynum or someone else who is signed this year?

    Rob Y,
    You are hilarious and no close to nothing about the NBA

    “no chance Bayless ever plays that well again” ARE YOU SURE???

    “still wish we’d of played Moultrie”

    haaaaa, Moultrie is useless. He was average in the D-League and gets worked in practice by Hawes, Lavoy and Kwame.

    “I just hope the Raptors don’t get Rudy Gay otherwise the 8 spot b/w us and Boston will include Toronto and probably the Magic.”

    LOL, the rumor is Calderon+Ed Davis for Gay. Both of those guys areCpretty awesome at Basketball and better than Gay.
    Toronto already has 4 swingmen in Derozan, Fields, Ross, Anderson. If Toronto does that trade, they immediately become wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy WORSE and have 0 shot at the playoffs.

    Detroit has a very real chance for the playoffs plus 20 million in expiring contracts to possible make a move and Washington is a Dark Horse candidate to make the playoffs. There is a very real chance the WIZ end up with a better record than the 76ers

    AND here is where you improve…..

    Thanks for seeing the positives in the Dalembert trade. Wright should be playing 30+ mpg and he will succeed. SwaggyP is horrible and unless he gets a hot hand, should be subbed out quickly.

    Jrue is terribly inconsistent, that is his biggest weakness at the moment.

  13. Jeff McMenamin
    29. January 2013 at 13:29

    I thought this was a great comment to bring up again in light of the Allen Iverson news. Classic Steve Toll…

    “People seem to forget that Iverson in his 00-01 MVP season was immediately the 2nd best player on the team once Dikembe Mutombo was acquired.”

    Haaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! Yeah…Iverson who dropped 50 every night in the playoffs that year was worse than Mutombo….

    This is the only thing I remember from Mutombo that year…Getting abused by Shaq in the Finals!!!

  14. Rob Y
    29. January 2013 at 14:09


    1) SICK! – you found 2 games in Bayless’s entire career where he played better than last night. It’s funny I made you spend your worthless time searching for that, no offense.

    2) In a more mature argument: I agree that long term the Davis+Calderon trade for Gay works out for the Grizz but Davis is still a couple years away from being solid and with Lowry, one of the most efficient PGs in the league, Calderon becomes less useful and makes Toronto more dangerous this year. Terrence Ross and Alan Anderson are a few years away from being effective as well. Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Bargnani/Valanciunas, Amir Johnson with Fields, Ross, Gray and Anderson coming off the bench is very strong. Fields is too poor of a shooter to be starting.

    3) As for Moultrie: 1) You watch the Sixers practice? 2) I said before the game we should give him a shot and I will admit Lavoy and Brown are better than him and he could be garbage but Lavoy and Kwame really couldn’t have played worse last night and even though Kwame only played like 15 min, he could’ve used a breather as funny as that sounds (It really looks like Lavoy and Kwame try less than any player in the league besides Odom).

    4) The Wiz are improving rapidly but their early season woes are way too much to make up. Pistons suck – Knight/Singler/Monroe are all bums. Maybe Knight can improve and Drummond becomes Chandler 2.0 + with a signing they can be a potential 8 seed next year but they are a LONG way away from doing anything.

    5) Wright is better than SwaggyP and even though there is no such thing as a shooting streak in basketball, I believe Nick Young needs the confidence to know he can jack up 10-13 shots/game to be effective on O. Maybe DC is sitting him for reasons unknown. Also why would we sign Wright and SwaggyP before we got a big man. Did we really think Lavoy was going to be average?

  15. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 14:15

    Ms Haygood,

    I hear yaaaaaaaaa


    Al Jefferson can play PF. The franchise is close to 100% screwed but you don’t understand the new CBA, and how it will affect the team going forward. Getting J-Rich and other guys for expiring contracts is worth more than it’s weight in gold, IF JRUE IS AS GOOD AS MOST PEOPLE THINK HE IS.

    I wasn’t vilifying Moultrie, bro. I made a legitimate comment that is relevant to the discussion about him. He has every right in the world to be a strip clubs, I was making a point that BBall isn’t everything in the world to him at this


    Any game that ET his 8-11 mid range jumpers, he will probably have a good game.

    Jrue played great in the NYK game. Fact is, he gets outplayed more often than not.

    We can go 1 on 1 anytime you want. I’ll go HAM, Billy Hoyle style, and you won’t be going to Sizzler after


    Come at the King, you best not miss

  16. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 14:29


    Iverson played 1016 minutes and Dikembe played 981 minutes in the 2001 NBA Playoffs. Dikembe played 96.5% of the minutes that AI did.

    Here are some stats, ENJOY

    Iverson: DIKEMBE
    PER – 22.5 PER-19.7
    True Shooting Percentage 48% TS%-58.4%
    Offensive Rating 105 Off Rat 122
    Defensive Rating 106 Def Rat 102
    Offensive Win Shares 1.9 Off Win Shares 2.4
    Defensive Win Shares .9 Def Win Shares 1.3
    Win Share Per 48 .130 WS48 .184

    Come at the King, you best not miss, Jeff

    You write about basketball because that is what you do. I write about basketball to inform the people. There is a difference. My pride and word is on the line every single day, you ain’t like me.

    Your continued misunderstanding of simple basketball principles is bewildering since you’ve been in the presence online of greatness for nearly 6 months. I’m trying to learn you, I’m trying real hard to be the Shepherd.

    If we are gonna talk about funny comments, here is one from this article of yours;
    This quote is about the hiring of Eddie Jordan

    “Sixers fans will come to realize that this was one of the greatest moves the organization has done in years.”

  17. chris
    29. January 2013 at 14:31

    The real question is what did Dorell Wright do to land so deep into the Doug House. The only think that is visible to me is that DW can play a 5 minute stretch and hes just running back and forth, zero impact. I don’t think that deserves such a long benching, there has to be a deeper problem.

  18. Jeff McMenamin
    29. January 2013 at 14:54


    You are insanely dumb if you think Mutombo was the best player in the Sixers in 2000-01. Like…There’s no way to help you.

    I didn’t enjoy those stats, because those stats didn’t show me Allen Iverson straight up lighting teams up for 50 points single-handedly. You’re really going to sit here and tell me that offensively Dikembe Mutombo out-performed Allen Iverson in the playoffs that year? A performance that ranks top 5 in the history of basketball? And considering Iverson’s size, probably #1 overall?

    Please. I’m not missing, you’re shooting worse than Iverson at the 3-point shootout. If you’re the King, than the country is doomed.

    Your continued stubbornness to the truth and reality is what is bewildering. You only comment when it gives you the best chance of backing up your absurd claims.

    Like Gabe said,
    “toll. seriously man u just pick n choose your games to come on here and talk trash. Didn’t see u on here after jrue torched everyone that tried to cover him against the knicks.”

    I’m at least willing to admit I was wrong on the Jordan signing like a man, whereas you dance around your claims like they’re still correct when someone calls you out. It’s not embarrassing to me, and Eddie Jordan being hired by the Lakers was proof that he was still considered a good coach.

    Jrue is an all-star and the best player on this team right now, Thad can’t shoot three’s, Bynum will make this team a playoff contender in the East, D Wright, Lavoy and Spencer are average to below average at best (you were praising all of them before the season), and Turner has proved to be one of the most versatile players in the league (LeBron and Durant are the only other players averaging 14, 6 and 4).

    All I gotta say is…C’MON SON.

  19. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 14:55

    Rob Y,

    1. No offense. I live in my parents basemant, all of my time
    is worthless. It literally took me 1 minute to find that info.

    2. There is no team in the NBA that Calderon+Davis isn’t a
    superior addition compared to Rudy Gay. Davis makes 1/6
    of Gay’s salary next year then is a Restricted Free Agent.

    Bargnani is a worse version of Nick Young, if he is put back
    in the rotation, the Raptors are 0% to make the playoffs

    3. Moultrie was average in the D-League. Hawes, Lavoy and
    Even Kwame wouldnt dominate in the D-League. Moultrie is
    useless righht now but might be of help in a few years.

    4. With Wall, Nene and Okafor all healthy, the Wizards are
    a formidable team. If they beat the 76ers on Wednesday, its
    within reason to think they will end up with a better record
    by seasons end than the 76ers

    Knight sucks but he is 1 1/2 years younger than Jrue and did
    dominate him and stalemate with him the 2 games they played
    this year.

    There are alot of teams that would take Drummond over Anthony
    Davis going forward, and you couldnt argue with them.

    Drummond and Monroe will likely be the best frontcourt in the
    NBA by 2015. With the cap space and draft picks, Detroit is in
    a great position going forward.

    Wright was given up by Golden State because they wanted to
    sign Brandon Rush, and trade for Jarrett Jack.
    Because they also drafted Harrison Barnes and had Richard
    Jefferson’s albatross contract, they had to give Dorell away.

    Philly only shipped the rights to an 06 euro draft pick and a
    2nd rd pick for Dorell. He was essentially a free agent pick
    PLUS we got his Bird Rights (if you dont know what that is,
    let me know, Ill explain it in depth)

    The signing of SwaggyP is totally inexcusable. That money
    was lit on fire for no reason whatsoever. The truly horrid
    part was how the front office acted like it was a brilliant

    Wright should be playing 30+mpg. As inconsistent as
    Dorell has been, he has been near average. Something that
    none of the other 2/3s have been except for a random game here
    or there and J-Rich to start the season

  20. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 15:02


    Except all the numbers CLEARLY show that Thad+ Mutumbo over Jrue+Iverson.

    Please do a game by game breakdown of Jrue this year, Please Please Please

    I’ll keep trying to learn you

  21. J
    29. January 2013 at 15:41

    Steve, Ur assessment of how holiday did against other point guards prove you don’t know basketball, he outplayed Felton, Calderon, rondo, Vasquez, lillard, Conley, collision, Williams and others( more than half the time he does outplay the other point)and if u don’t agree with that, then you are stupid

  22. Jeff McMenamin
    29. January 2013 at 15:50


    You mean teach me? What the hell is learning me? That is not an English expression.

    In any case, Mutombo was one of the best shot blockers/rebounder/defender’s in the game no doubt. Yet in basketball history, find me one person other than yourself who’d claim Mutombo had a better NBA career than Iverson. I highly doubt you’d be able to. The most success either of them found in the NBA was playing with eachother. Mutombo was the perfect defensive/rebounding presence to compliment Iverson’s offensive output.

    Thad has had a better CAREER than Jrue, but Jrue is the best player on the Sixers this season. I don’t have nearly enough time to break down game-by-game Jrue’s season so far compared to Thad’s. Seriously?

    Thad Young, on Jrue Holiday this season: “He’s capable of being a superstar player, and he’s been doing a heck of a job for us…”

    Yeah Jrue isn’t consistently amazing, but he’s about 80% amazing. Thad will always give you around 10 and 10, but most nights he gets manhandled trying to defend. Not a knock on Thad, he’s just undersized.

    I just think it’s funny how experts, players and coaches can see the truth, but you avoid the truth at all costs to be the outlier who does all he can to keep up with his outrageous claims.

    As Michael Curry explained postgame the other night, All-Star’s are chosen through the body of work in the playoff’s last season up until their play so far this season. Jrue>>>>>>>>>Thad in the playoffs last year and Jrue>>Thad in this season this year. Get over it. Stop crying.


  23. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 15:57

    WS, WS48, RAPM, WP48, Offensive Rating, Defensive Rating, Roland Rating, RAPM

    All cleary point to Thad > Jrue, except for PER

  24. Datruth4life2.0
    29. January 2013 at 16:00


    I’d do that deal if I am the 76ers, but what would be Utah’s incentive to move Big Al for that? The 76ers need to get a low post option on this team, with or without Bynum.

  25. Rob Y
    29. January 2013 at 16:11

    1) Overall, I think a Calderon + Davis for Gay trade is pretty close long-term given the fact that both teams may agree to do it. Like you said, the Grizz probably got the better end of the deal and I’m not really sure why the Raptors would do it even if it were for someone slightly better than Rudy Gay. With a good man’s Rudy Gay, the Raptors still very far away from ever contending for anything and hurt their chances in the future of doing so.

    However, if Ed Davis is 1/6 cap that Gay is, it seems the only logical explanation for the trade would be to improve the Raptors odds of making the playoffs this season and get more $/fan support from Toronto to keep pace with the Maple Leafs now that the NHL is back asToronto could be losing NBA fans. IMO, it would be better for the Raptors to continue as they are, (most likely) miss the playoffs (with or without the trade), get a lottery pick, and have the cap to then sign a Gay-type player or better when you now have the option of swinging Lowry or Calderon as well.

    Nonetheless, for the remainder of only this season, I still feel that the only logical explaination for the Raptors possibly making this trade is that Gay gives them slighly better odds to make the playoffs/make money/etc. They can’t truly believe that giving away solid trade bait in Calderon and Ed Davis for Gay is a better long term solution to win a championship.

    2) It’s very hard to argue Bargnani is worse than Nick Young especially given the small pool of valuable big men in the league (I am aware Bargnani plays more of a small man’s game but a 7’0″ guy can still grab boards). Bargnani’s stock was also on the rise before his injury (18 PER last season, increasing by about 1/year while shooting a career low 30% from 3 where he is career 36%- a career avg 3pt year could’ve had him in the 19-20 PER range on a bad team, which is very strong).

    3) Moultrie/Lavoy/Hawes/Brown- you pretty much said what I said earlier after bashing my statement that we should have played him last night (Wouldn’t be that much of a drop down and 3-4 minutes over a sloppy Kwame would’ve looked good in hindsight last night).

    4) Wiz- very tough to come back from ~5GB? of Sixers to finish ahead of us given we may have Bynum back soon. That argument could be reasonable if Bynum doesn’t come back.

    5) I have some trouble believing Drummond and Monroe could be one of the best frontcourts in the league in a few years simply because I watched Monroe play in college where he was extremely overrated. Still, with a lack of solid froncourt duos in the NBA and a changing game (small ball), this is somewhat of a possibility even though I still find them inefficient. Also, players like Drummond need to be on a good team with a good ball handler to be effective (e.g. Griffin/Chandler). Anyone who shoots below 50% from the stripe is also easily solvable to defend against.

    6) I’m glad we got Dorrell Wright but he is still a very replaceable player and am pretty indifferent to him in general.

    7) AI is a Philly legend – one of the greatest athletes to ever grace this city – No player in my lifetime has been nearly as electrifying and exciting to watch (except Vick in 2010). Given his size, he is one of the most talented, tough, and determined athletes of all time. He wasn’t as efficient as many players are today but he also NEVER had anyone good to play with until he got to Denver where he didn’t mesh well with Melo (who does?). In addition, AI was also one of the greatest passers of all-time. All I can say is that Theo Ratliff was way better than Mutumbo (somewhat of a bum) over that two year span and had we kept Ratliff and possibly signed a three point shooter for the ’01 playoffs, the 76ers, a very mediocre team minus AI (Snow, Hill, McKie, Lynch, ???), could’ve put up a fight against that year’s Lakers squad, one of the greatest teams in NBA history.

  26. Rob h
    29. January 2013 at 16:16

    Steve toll,
    If there are so many players that are underpaid/undervalued throughout the league that are most likely on short term deals. If we don’t resign Bynum, nick young, dorell wright I’m doing a rough estimate her with jrue and eat and Thad all scheduled to make more we will have like 20-24 million to spend. With a team led by your man Thad, the only all-star on the team, jrue holiday, why can’t we sign guys like Matt Barnes and players that have good advanced stats in non-starter minutes that you speak so highly of? Not to mention the next year we have lavoy, et, hawes, kwame coming off the books for another 20mill or so. I understand the cap is changing or the way to sign people or whatever but we have enough money theoretically to sign one max player or a couple players that will make an impact. Or trade contracts like hawes, et, etc. to teams that are giving up talent like the Rudy gay trade scenarios when everyone is trying to free up money for the free agent gold rush in 14. The team is not in as bad a shape as you think, and if we get a lottery pick then a chance at cheap talent.

    In summary we have options for the future and holiday is maybe the next great guard, I love Thad but what he is now is all he will ever be because he’s undersized. In other news you continue to gloss over every point that you can’t argue, and you say we can’t read correctly.

  27. Jeff McMenamin
    29. January 2013 at 16:19


    You don’t read man…I just told you…

    “All-Star’s are chosen through the body of work in the playoff’s last season up until their play so far this season. Jrue>>>>>>>>>Thad in the playoffs last year and Jrue>>Thad in this season this year.”

    2011-12 Playoffs
    PER 18, 14.5
    TS% 52, 48
    ORTG 106, 98
    DRTG 99, 98
    OWS .7, .1
    DWS .8, .5
    WS 1.5, .6
    WS/48 1.5, 1

    2012-13 Season
    Yeah Thad’s beating Jrue in most of the advanced stats except for PER and “DRTG” this season (you were wrong about that). But, Thad has taken 100 less shots and isn’t relied upon to orchestrate the Sixers offense. Jrue’s 359 assists are extremely valuable to this team. The Sixers would have about 9 less wins if it weren’t for Jrue. Thad has definitely played at an all-star caliber and I think he should’ve been looked at more in the voting, but he’s being fed alley oops and easy buckets down low from Jrue. He wouldn’t be the player he is this season if it weren’t for Jrue, but the same can’t be said the other way around.

  28. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 16:34

    Thad has a defensive rating of 104, Jrue is at 108.

    I’m correct, as usual

  29. Hitzy
    29. January 2013 at 16:35

    My gosh Steve you don’t know basketball at all. Jrue Holiday outplays most point guards he plays; he doesn’t get outplayed by them. Evan Turner is one of the most versatile players in the league. Thad is good but he is not better than Jrue Holiday. and ANDRE IGUODALA SUCKS.

  30. Rob Y
    29. January 2013 at 16:38

    Jrue > Thad.

    1) Sadly, this may possibly be Jrue’s only All-Star appearance ever – (Rondo, DRose, Irving, DWill will re-emerge, improving John Wall is a tight race + up and comers). Jrue still takes too many dumb long distance 2’s and lacks the competitive edge many better PGs have. Very big fan of the guy and worth his $ + some, easily could be a starting PG on a championship caliber team, but maybe 10th-11th best PG in league today and slightly better in a few years (Add in Tony Parker today, Westbrook, CP3, Steph Curry, Nash today).

    2) Thad is good but is nowhere close to an All-Star and can’t really create for himself. Come playoff time, his energy gets countered by many players who decide to step up. He is very efficient and could would a great 6th man/borderline starter on any NBA championship caliber team. Very big fan of the guy and his hustle, worth his $, but not great by any means.

  31. Jon in LA
    29. January 2013 at 16:39


    You forget to realize that games are decided by one team scoring more points than the other team when discussing stats for Jrue and Thad (same with the Iverson Mutumbo debate). PER and Assists are a big deal. Especially for a team that has problems scoring.

    19 and 9 equates to 37 pts on average that Jrue is responsible for. Yes he misses more, but that’s because he runs the offense and Thad can’t.

  32. Jeff McMenamin
    29. January 2013 at 16:44

    Haha alright Steve you were correct about that. I thought for a second the higher the number the better for DRTG but it’s the other way around. You’re not usually correct though.

    You also failed to address everything else I just said. True or false…Thad would be putting up the numbers he has this season and the Sixers would have 18 wins if Royal Ivey was the starting point guard?

  33. Rob Y
    29. January 2013 at 16:52

    In the most important news of the day for the Sixers- people are excited that Bynum dunked for the first time yesterday! Yahoo! O wait, he can do that without jumping…

    I think Bynum’s return projected for late February is a joke if thats the case. I would say try to play him last 15 games if we’re close to 8 seed (2-3 GB back) but given our loss last night and Celtics miracle win vs. Heat on Sunday, I think we should almost just make sure he’s healthy for next year (don’t play him this year), get a solid lotto pick, and come out fresh for 2013-14 as sad as it is to say without any Philly sports teams to root for. Resign Bynum, try to drop one of JRich/SwaggyP/Lavoy/Dorrell Wright.

    With a lottery pick, realistically ranging from 8-13, who would you guys want to get and why?

    With this lottery pick how does our team looks with a starting 5 (should ET or Hawes be benched?) of Jrue/ET/Thad/Hawes/Bynum + who do we keep on bench and why? Who do we try to get in FA that looks good?

  34. es2300
    29. January 2013 at 16:56

    what gets lost in this whole article is the Bad coaching job by DC….starting the fourth with reserves while the other team has there starting lineup in was Foolish! Its the 3rd year mark for DC (take a look at history) its time for him to Go!

  35. Jeff McMenamin
    29. January 2013 at 17:00

    Actually a good way to judge this Steve.

    Sixers without Jrue 0-4.

    Thad in those games…

    13 ppg, 51 FG%, 6 rebs, 2 TO

    All of which below season averages…

  36. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 17:03


    The trade fills out the Jazz roster and allows for a bigger role for Favors and Kanter.
    Suddenly, the Jazz are 10 deep and have more than a punchers chance at a first round upset.

    Apparently, Millsap is preferred over Jefferson. Utah is a tough spot to bring in free agents and this improves their team this season while acting as its offseason as well.

    Rob Y,

    1. Calderon and Davis are both superior to Rudy Gay, I can’t imagine even Colangelo making a trade that bad.

    Toronto only keeps its draft pick this season if it is the 1st, 2nd, 3rd pick or the 15th-30th pick. OKC gets the pick if its 4-15 in the draft

    2. Bargnani is worse then SwaggyP because he plays a more important position and is just as awful.

    3. If DC thought Moultrie could help the team, he’d play him.

    4. It’s unlikely, but it’s not outside the realm of reason at this point. Wednesdays game will certainly swing that thought one way or the other.

    5. Andre Drummond is performing like Dwight Howard as a rookie. Monroe is ever improving since his college days and won’t hit his peak until between 27-30 years old. While Drummond has an issue at the free throw line, he is a beast everywhere else.

    D12 played a lot more his rookie year and Drummond still has 36 more games, but he looks like he’ll be a total stud for years to come

    6. Dorell is undervalued. It’s tough to get an ~average player who can fill starter level minutes at $4 million per year on a Non-rookie contract

  37. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 17:14


    The team has 47 million committed to the cap next year with: Jrue, Thad, Hawes, ET, JRich, Lavoy, Kwame, Moultrie.

    Lets pretend we luckbox the 5th pick, that’s 4 million added to the cap.

    Hypothetically, Bynum signs a 5 year deal and returns to All-NBA form

    Heading into the 2014 offseason: Bynum, Jrue, Thad, Jrich, Moultrie, 2013 Lotto pick make 51 million, give or take. The team will not have a 2014 draft pick.

    It will have 9 million and a 5 million dollar Mid Level Exception (which I can explain if you aren’t sure what that is) for free agents.

    Evan Turner is a restricted free agent that offseason, he could conceivably sign for 9 million per season, leaving the team with only it’s MLE and veteran minimum deals to fill out the roster

    I don’t see a bright future at all unless they luckbox a stud in the draft AND Bynum stays healthy

  38. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 17:31


    You can’t handle the truth.


    I like Jrue, he just isn’t close to what anyone thinks he is. Thad OTOH is extremely underrated. The D he played on Z-Bo last night was better than any defensive performance by Jrue this year.

    Jon in LA,

    Not quite sure what your point is, but I am sure that its wrong


    If Bynum is resigned, there is no cap room for any free agents except minimum salary veterans,

    The 76ers are 0-4 with Jrue like you said. Want me to tell you the Lakers record without Bynum the last 2 seasons?

    The answer to your question is False, the 76ers would have less wins and Thad would have better numbers.

    Can you find any other teammates in the NBA where one is superior in every advanced stat category EXCEPT for PER and the one with a higer PER is considered a superior player?????

  39. JC Vergara
    29. January 2013 at 17:34

    This one really hurts

  40. Rob Y
    29. January 2013 at 17:38

    I don’t really want to get into this argument that much more as it has been beaten to death but I will simply say, in my personal opinion, and others can chime in on this (Steve’s side vs. my side) if they like, but I believe Gay, although not necessarily better than Calderon, adds more value to the Raptors currently on a swap. Also, I believe Gay is better than Ed Davis individually at this point in time. I think Gay becomes more valuable than Calderon/less valuable than Davis as times goes on (Again, I watched Davis play at UNC and never thought he was going to be a star but I could be proved wrong along with Monroe, see below).

    Overall, the potential trade, which may not even happen btw and could be a rumor, doesn’t really make much sense to me either for the Raptors- BUT I believe the trade must give the Raptors a higher probabilty of making the playoffs this year if they do agree to it or else it simply does not make sense as I argued above.

    I will admit Drummond looks like a stud as you have pointed out; however, and you may have more info on this than I do, but it still mostly comes down to defense. If Drummond can be 75% of the defender Howard once was, and can improve his FTs then he could be one of the best big men in the league in a few years. Still, the original argument was the Pistons beating out the Sixers for the 8 seed this year and Drummond still has some developing to do first before you can definitively say Pistons are better than the Sixers.

    Also, why do you say Monroe won’t reach his prime until 27-30? (I realize it is a tough argument for any player his age but I am mostly curious) I mean, he was the #1 recruit coming out of high school so it’s not like he’s necessarily a late bloomer or anything and he was pretty bad in college. Then again, Georgetown can’t develop anybody (except AI!!!)

    “If DC thought Moultrie could help this team, he’d play him” – he probably would have if that thing about Delilah’s is true. Idk, you have a tendency to be sarcastic which is very difficult to decipher in writing.

    I’ve always thought Dorrell Wright was a solid assset at $4mn and could be a solid 7th man on a championship team but I feel Wright will want more than $4 if he resigns next year since he doesn’t appear to be happy in Philly. Also, when we don’t have to pay Brand next year our payroll is looking solid anyway so he may not be worth the potential extra $ he could demand.

  41. Jeff McMenamin
    29. January 2013 at 17:46


    Sixers are 0-4 “without” Jrue. No I don’t know what the Lakers’ record was, enlighten me.

    Before I get into other teams lets focus on the Sixers for a minute. Why are you saying the Sixers would have less wins with Ivey at the point? Ivey has a higher WS/48 than Jrue, a higher TS% and a higher ORTG than Jrue. Going by your usual arguments, if Ivey has a higher WS/48 it must mean he’s producing better than Jrue!

    Also I just showed you Thad’s stats with Jrue out of the lineup.

    “Thad in those games…

    13 ppg, 51 FG%, 6 rebs, 2 TO

    All of which below season averages…”

    So explain to me how again Thad’s averages would increase? I’m not understanding your logic here, it’s not making sense.

  42. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 18:29


    It’s not even close this year, with Jose, Davis and Gay. That link should clear things up.
    Go down to the advanced stat stuff.

    NBA bigs don’t reach their prime until 27-30 but that is basically a fact (there are obviously exceptions to the rule) assuming they stay healthy, it’s almost 100%.

    Once Drummond starts getting more playing time, it will not be fun for any team to play the Pistons.

    I don’t know why you think the payroll looks solid. It’s solid in the sense of no cap room but this team isn’t winning anything next year UNLESS they draft a total stud : Bynum, Thad, Jrue, Hawes, ET, J-Rich, Lavoy, Kwame, Moultrie and maybe a lottery pick is the team next year.

    Dorell has to be retained, he is the best Wing on the team if/when he plays

    Moultrie was at D’s (my issue is he was there 1 hour after the game ended), and DC plays him if he the he can help.


    The last 2 seasons
    28-12 (70%) without Bynum
    70-38 (64%) with Bynum

    I know your quite daft but even you know that a massive increase in playing time will only make Royal less effective.

    What I’ve said is that it’s close to impossible to be superior to a guy who produces 1.5x WSper48 which is vague but for talking to simple folk like you, is enough.

    The answer to your question about Thad is “4 game sample size”

    Answer me this: Thad has played in 4 losses that Jrue has not. Why does Thad have a +4 Offense:Defense Rating and Jrue is -5?

    This as well, please: Can you find any other teammates in the NBA where one is superior in every advanced stat category EXCEPT for PER and the one with a higer PER is considered a superior player????? Assuming they play similar minutes…

  43. Rick
    29. January 2013 at 18:53

    I was going to post some REAL basketball knowledge on this discussion board, but there are way too many things to address. So I will just leave it alone I’ll talk to you guys next post.


    There is no use in trying to sell Jrue Holiday to Steve. He obviously has something against Good/Great Philadelphia guards. (Jrue Holiday and THE ANSWER)


    They are letting you talk crazy in this post, your on too much of a role(not necessarily a good one) for me to step in now, so like I said I’ll talk to you all next post.

  44. Jeff McMenamin
    29. January 2013 at 20:57


    Thanks for the Bynum records, now what does that have to do with anything we’ve just talked about? The Lakers won 107 games the past two seasons including the playoffs in an a lot better Western Conference. They’re historically a top 5 franchise in the league every season. Even with a player like Bynum out of the lineup, they usually have enough talent to fill the void.

    The Sixers won 84 games the past two seasons in a relatively weak Eastern Conference (other than about 3 teams). Since the 80’s they’ve historically been an average franchise. When an average franchise plays without its two best players (Andrew Bynum and Jrue Holiday) and doesn’t have the depth to replace those players, they’re most likely going to lose.

    If you were trying to prove to me that the Lakers are a better organization than the Sixers the past two seasons, you did your job. However Bynum’s impact on the Sixers this season is 200% more important to the team than Bynum’s impact to the Lakers the past two seasons. The Sixers don’t have a front-court player anywhere near the greatness of Pau Gasol.

    Going back to Ivey. Is that so? I guess that kills any argument you have for Calderon>Jrue than. Calderon only plays on average 28 mpg compared to Jrue’s 38 mpg. An increased workload would make his numbers/efficiency go down drastically. Same goes for Lowry who plays nearly identical minutes.

    As for the Thad offensive:defensive rating question, Thad’s usage% is nearly 8% lower than Jrue. When you have the ball in your hand as much as Jrue does it can lead to more turnovers as well as more shots (as I pointed out Jrue has shot 100 more than Thad). Turnovers and missed shots kill your offensive rating (which it has for Jrue). I’m sure that having to work that hard on offense is also very draining on Jrue on the defensive end (which is why his defense has looked poor at times this season). You act like fatigue isn’t a factor in basketball.

    And Steve here’s a few examples for you of the last question…

    Carmelo Anthony>Tyson Chandler…but only better in PER statistically.

    Rajon Rondo>Jared Sullinger…but only better in PER and DWS statistically.

    JaVale and Gallinari>Koufos…but only better in PER statistically….Oh and Iguodala’s far worse than all of them in every category.

    Aldridge>Hickson and Batum…but only better than Batum in PER and DRTG…He’s lower than Hickson in everything.

    Kevin Love>Pekovic, Kirilenko, Ridnour…but only better than Ridnour in PER and DRTG…only better than AK47 and Pek in DRTG.

    I’ll stop there…but there’s definitely more. Steve, Steve, Steve…One day you’ll learn.

  45. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 21:49


    I don’t know what those first couple paragraphs are about but they are terrible

    Your attempted point about Calderon-Lowry proves how daft you are, they are better than Jrue by every metric except for Calderon in “VI”

    Your examples are all terrible and wrong. Tell me about RAPM

  46. Steve Toll
    29. January 2013 at 21:56

    Can you find any other teammates in the NBA where one is superior in every advanced stat category EXCEPT for PER and the one with a higer PER is considered a superior player????? Assuming they play similar minutes…

    Please list all advanced stats

  47. Rob h
    29. January 2013 at 21:57

    If our cap situation is that bad they are going to have to trade Thad, makes to much money for a 6th/7th man. I personally would try and trade him for Rudy gay.

  48. Jeff McMenamin
    29. January 2013 at 22:17


    You said this…

    “The 76ers are 0-4 without Jrue like you said. Want me to tell you the Lakers record without Bynum the last 2 seasons?”

    What were you trying to prove by giving me the Lakers’ records the past 2 seasons without Bynum?

    I was breaking down how dumb it was that I thought you were trying to argue, which is that Bynum made the Lakers worse when he was on the court. Any coach in their right mind would breathe a sigh of relief in a playoff series if they didn’t have to face Andrew Bynum and you know it’s true. I also explained that Bynum is much more irreplaceable to the Sixers this season than he was to the Lakers last season. If you don’t believe that than you’re a complete moron.

    Steve, if Calderon and Lowry are so much better than Jrue than why did neither of them get any attention to play in the all-star game? If they are indeed better than Jrue by every metric except VI, why do they share point guard duties? Why can’t they handle playing 38 mpg like Jrue can? Anything? Bueller?

    My examples just clearly stated the issues with the metrics you hold so dear. You’ve been proven wrong time and time again. Jrue’s all-star bid is just another example.

    Can you please explain these??? You didn’t say anything. I can keep finding more, but lets just start here. I want to hear this “logic” that you claim to have….

    “Carmelo Anthony>Tyson Chandler…but only better in PER statistically.

    Rajon Rondo>Jared Sullinger…but only better in PER and DWS statistically.

    JaVale and Gallinari>Koufos…but only better in PER statistically….Oh and Iguodala’s far worse than all of them in every category.

    Aldridge>Hickson and Batum…but only better than Batum in PER and DRTG…He’s lower than Hickson in everything.

    Kevin Love>Pekovic, Kirilenko, Ridnour…but only better than Ridnour in PER and DRTG…only better than AK47 and Pek in DRTG.”

  49. Jon
    29. January 2013 at 22:18

    I don’t understand how this is even an argument.. Jrue is an Allstar Thad is not. Why do we simply throw at old fashioned box score statistics now in favor of metrics? I understand the use of them but they should not nullify ppg apg rpg ect… Jrue easily leads Thad in points and has 7 more assists per game and only has 3 less boards per game. Tell me all you want about Thad being better than jrue in such and such rating while still throwing out another metric, per, for I don’t know why. Jrues better nuff said toll..haaaaaaaa

  50. Ugh
    29. January 2013 at 22:22

    You are both wrong.

    Jrue is an Allstar whether you like it or not, and you should respect him for it. I have a question for you. Why are you a fan of the Sixers, and what do you like about the current roster?

  51. Jon
    29. January 2013 at 22:27

    Steve you just got burned

  52. Jon
    29. January 2013 at 22:35

    By Jeff that is

  53. Rafi
    29. January 2013 at 22:58

    I have to admit that before reading your posts on this page I had no respect for you.
    Then you quoted the Wire.
    I have a tiny amount of respect for you now.
    Why are you so negative?

  54. Will
    29. January 2013 at 23:53

    Steve Toll is the man. The over the top boasting and excessive nitpicking performed by pretty much everyone in this thread has made reading these comments the highlight of my day. And I still love AI. OFWGKTA

  55. Steve Toll
    30. January 2013 at 00:56


    I’m sure there is a lot going on that don’t understand as evidenced by your comments.
    Jeff couldn’t burn a grill cheese with Lava


    Been a fan of the 76ers since I was a wee lad. Right now, I like the potential to be a 6th, 7th or 8th seed the next few years


    Got to….. This America, Man


    Glad you’ve been entertained. AI was great, 2nd best player on that 76er team that went to the Finals.

  56. Steve Toll
    30. January 2013 at 00:58

    Rob H,

    Rudy Gay isn’t as good as Thad and is paid 2x. If we get rid of Thad, J-Rich MUST be part of the deal and it can’t involve horrible contractsof a guy like Gay

  57. Jon
    30. January 2013 at 13:17

    Okay so you chose to respond to the least important of my comments? Soooooo….Jrue is better than thad

  58. Steve Toll
    30. January 2013 at 14:27


    You like most everyone else, are wrong 8 ways to Sunday. I cant convince you otherwise

  59. Jon
    30. January 2013 at 18:54

    Dude I’m open to your arguments and ideas, I just don’t see the logic in using metric stats and then throwing out arguably the most commonly used metric. That’s really all I’m saying. I unlike some people here don’t just hate your ideas because they’re from you I just think as Jeff has said you need to own up to it when you’re wrong. Which as you say you’re right most of the time. I thought you were crazy at the beginning of the year with your predictions for the team yet here we are. But IMO the iverson mutumbo argument is just outlandish.

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