Posted by: Jake Fischer
02/11/13 10:28 pm EST
Los Angeles Clippers 107 FinalRecap | Box Score 90 Philadelphia 76ers
Lavoy Allen, PF 29 MIN | 2-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 4 PTS | -30Lavoy played incredibly soft tonight. It was very evident from the get-go that the Temple product was a little intimidated inside by the Clippers’ athletic bigs. He didn’t do anything in the first 8 minutes of the game which forced Collins to pull him for Arnett Moultrie ASAP.
Evan Turner, SF 32 MIN | 4-14 FG | 2-2 FT | 5 REB | 3 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 10 PTS | -25You have to really to wonder if Evan is starting to hear the trade rumors that are beginning to involve his name.  He was clearly frustrated and pressing all night offensively and his shooting percentage shows that.  His body language was very poor as well.
Spencer Hawes, C 29 MIN | 2-7 FG | 1-2 FT | 10 REB | 3 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 4 TO | 5 PTS | -20Don’t take Hawes’ 10 rebounds too seriously.  The 76ers’ starting center was very soft inside as well tonight as he was often looking up at the bottom of Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan’s sneakers as they were dunking over him.
Jrue Holiday, PG 29 MIN | 4-14 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 9 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 10 PTS | -22Jrue played a relatively solid game tonight, but in a potential match-up of All-Star game starting point guards, Holiday was taken to school by CP3.  The ultra quick Paul, the Western Conference starter, put on a point guard clinic that Jrue can certainly learn from.
Nick Young, SG 34 MIN | 10-18 FG | 5-6 FT | 2 REB | 5 AST | 3 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 29 PTS | -12In somewhat of an “eff-you” game against his old team – remember the Clippers essentially let him walk for Jamaal Crawford – Young was very effective on the offensive end.  While a lot of his points did come in garbage time, he got to the line 6 times, too.
Arnett Moultrie, PF 26 MIN | 4-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 6 REB | 0 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 8 PTS | +4Arnett surprisingly entered the game at the 4:31 mark in the 1Q tonight after Lavoy Allen really struggled out of the gate.  He responded with 6 points, 2 ORebs and some nice interior defense on Griffin.  He also showed some nice, soft touch around the basket.  I couldn’t give him the A+ because of that nasty follow slam Jordan threw down on his head off of Griffin’s missed FT.  You have to box out in the Association rookie.
Dorell Wright, SF 15 MIN | 2-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 3 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 5 PTS | +1Dorell Wright apparently played 6 minutes in the 1Q, but I didn’t even remember he was in the game when I checked the box score during the commercial break before the 2Q.  But hey, he did contribute a little in garbage time.  He’s been horribly misused this season thanks to the Do(u)g-house.
Jeremy Pargo, PG 24 MIN | 4-12 FG | 1-4 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 10 PTS | -6Pargo entered the contest to replace a struggling Turner in the 1Q. While he didn’t do anything nearly as eye-popping as he did against the Bobcats, he still looks the part of a serviceable backup PG. Collins should use him like the Clippers use Eric Bledsoe.
Royal Ivey, PG 12 MIN | 3-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 7 PTS | +12Royal Ivey didn’t play a minute of this game until the Sixers were down nearly 30 points in the fourth quarter. But, when he did get into garbage time, he actually shot the ball pretty well.
Damien Wilkins, SG 10 MIN | 0-2 FG | 2-2 FT | 4 REB | 3 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 2 PTS | +13Wilkins continues his recent streak of looking clueless on the court offensively.  If you turned off the game before or during the 4Q, you probably missed his oh-so embarrassing fast break layup miss.
Kwame Brown, C DNP COACH’S DECISION MIN | FG | FT | REB | AST | STL | BLK | TO | PTS | In the preseason, Collins praised Kwame as a potential NBA starting center.  Now he’s racking up DNP’s like burned up trucks on MTV’s “Buckwild”.  How is this guy making multiple millions of dollars?
Doug CollinsIn fairness to Collins, his players were simply outplayed by a much talented team. However, the Sixers let the Clippers (a team playing their second game of a back-to-back set) jump out to a 10-1 lead to start the game.  That’s terrible preparation by the coaching staff.  I will give him credit for going to Moultrie and Pargo so early though.

After the Jump, Six Things We Saw…

1.  Immediately following the tip the Clippers’ broadcasters (I was watching from a surprisingly solid FirstRowSports stream) were discussing the lack of progression of Andrew Bynum’s rehab.  When you get Bynum updates without the red and blue glasses the mainstream Philly media wears, it’s feels more and more realistic that Bynum won’t appear in a Sixers’ uniform this season.

2.  As mentioned in the grades, the Sixers sat back, relaxed and watched the Clippers burst out to a 10-1 lead to open the contest and looked like they were the team that were playing the second game of a back-to-back.  This team has lacked energy in many games this season.  Tonight instead of raising their game to meet the challenge of playing a quality NBA team, they just rolled over…at home!

3.  Last season, the Sixers were constantly benefiting from the superb play of their bench (a.k.a. “The Night Shift”).  But, now with Thad Young and Evan Turner starting, and with Lou Williams in the ATL, the 76ers’ bench has little to zero consistent production.  In this game, the Clippers bench scored 19-straight points in the first half.  The Sixers don’t have that capability.

4.  It’s starting to seem like Doug Collins is beginning to give up on this season.  If he really thought this team had a chance to make the playoffs he would not be playing Moultrie big minutes in the 1st quarter of basketball games that are still competitive.  DC has been shaking his head and crossing his arms more often than he’s been “teaching”.

5.  When Lob City came to town, Sixers fans knew that they should expect some exciting alley-oops and dunks from the Clippers array of athletic players.  But, the 76ers players ended up having first row seats to an absolute dunk contest, as they lost the points in the paint battle, 48-26. This one especially entertained:

6.  Lastly, but certainly not least, after the game the Sixers players HUGGED, DAPPED and CHATTED with the Clippers players that had just DESTROYED them!!  Only Nick Young had the right to converse with his old teammates.  Spencer Hawes, Dorell Wright and Jrue Holiday should not have been all buddy-buddy with the Clippers players following that demolition.  They should have been embarrassed and walked off the court.  That was an absolute disgrace!


41 Responses to “GM 50: (EMBARRASSED) RAPID REACTS”

  1. MattSg
    11. February 2013 at 22:41

    Smh .. ive reached my limit with et.. as much as ive supported him i think he desperately needs a change of scenery. . Its sad cause ive always stood up for him but its time to go ..
    What do you guys think about this deal? Probably wont happen but I think it would be a good trade .

  2. Will
    11. February 2013 at 23:09

    Though I agree Doug may have given up on this season, I don’t think playing Moultrie big minutes represents that. Tonight Moultrie was arguably their best big man, and the only one who didn’t seem asleep.

  3. charlie
    11. February 2013 at 23:36

    Turner is the worst. I can remember 2 times vividly where Lavoy had a smaller player pinned down low and instead of throwing it in for an easy bucket, he takes a freaking 18-20 footer. Are you kidding me? Is he that stupid? Then he compounds his mistakes by complaining all night long. Sometime I just wonder is he wants to get stats so he can look good or if he wants to win. He steals easy boards, never getting a tough one (almost goaltended a FT tonight), chucks up awful shots, then pouts when things don’t go his way. He’s a totally different person/player than I thought I saw at OSU.

    still not buying Moultrie. hopefully he keeps playing like this though (other than the bad team D). He could be a deal sweetener and maybe help get something good back for Turner. GM’s love rookie contracts.

  4. Steve Toll
    11. February 2013 at 23:54


    Chicago never does that trade. Sub in Jrue for ET and Chicago still doesn’t do it

  5. Steve Toll
    11. February 2013 at 23:57

    Jrue is on the Allen Iverson and Chris Kaman level of terrible All-Star selections

  6. ken
    12. February 2013 at 00:23

    matt no way that deal gets done the bulls are giving up way too much for an unproven Moultrie and turner when they already have deng. heres a trade I wouldn’t mind seein happen. you can prob get a 1st round protected pick from the rockets as well since they will give up everything for an all star big man

    id do this trade bc im tired or waiting for Bynum, gives us a chance at getting the 8th seed for the playoffs, and this will give us some cap room/solid role players for the future so we can still sign a top notch FA. not to mention now we can trade away our awful players(mainly turner) and not have to worry about getting full value back for him

  7. Tom
    12. February 2013 at 00:31


    I don’t think the Bulls would ever fall for that.

  8. MattSg
    12. February 2013 at 01:18

    Yeah I know they probably wouldnt do it but a man can dream lol . I was also trying to add some picks for chi town but the trade machine doesnt allow that . I just dont wanna get ripped off for turner but thats probably whats gonna go down ..

  9. MattSg
    12. February 2013 at 01:29

    But steve .. iverson terrible all star selection? Thats blasphemy. …

  10. chris
    12. February 2013 at 07:32

    Why doesnt anyone understand that no one is going to trade for one of the worst players on one of the worst teams. Everyone thinks that when they get mad at a player on their team that they can just trade him. The GMs in this league do watch the games and unless you can trick David Kahn into sending him to the t’wolves, ET will be a sixer for the rest of this contract

  11. Steve Toll
    12. February 2013 at 10:24


    The Rockets GM is very good at what he does. He isn’t making that trade. Asik+Parsons+Terrence Jones are all young+cheap+w/o injury issues.

    At Center, only a healthy D12 is more valuable than that package.


    Feel free to go look at some of the years that AI made the All-Star team, its a completely reasonable statement given his production or lack thereof.

    David Kahn is actually quite a good gm. Tony Dileo and DC arent gonna fleece him in a trade.

    Do you think the 76ers could give ET away?

  12. RYN_JAY
    12. February 2013 at 11:17

    This is the trade we should make.

  13. Rick
    12. February 2013 at 11:40


    They would probably smack our GMs in the face if they proposed that trade.


    I like Iman Shumpert he can play defense. He has way better defense than evan turner , and I feel that he can be more, or as efficient as evan turner on offense. Plus that gives us somebody else than can handle the ball. Steve Novak is a better shooter than anyone we have right now. So I think that would be a steal for us.

    I like the amare trade because he is better than Thad, I think he is more dominant. So we wouldn’t be losing anything there. Like I’ve said before I like Iman Shumpert over Evan Turner. Spencer Hawes is replaceable and we would still have Lavoy, Moultrie, and Bynum.

  14. RYN_JAY
    12. February 2013 at 12:32

    The link doesn’t work anymore. It would be Spencer, ET, and Lavoy for Love. BOOM!

  15. ken
    12. February 2013 at 12:36

    toll the rockets were giving up a lot to try and get howard this offseason even though he is coming off his back injury and were giving up a lot more to get him then what my trade is for Bynum. yes the rockets gm is good at what he does but I feel like he may do that trade bc as its been shown in the past he likes to try and get all star big men(howard and gasol) and is willing to give up a lot to try and get them. what trade do you think then the rockets would agree to then for Bynum if they were interested in him?

  16. Rick
    12. February 2013 at 13:13

    How do you guys feel about this trade?

  17. Rick
    12. February 2013 at 13:24

    I don’t think the link worked, but the trade was Andrew Bynum for Zach Randolph straight up. Memphis is trying to get Zach Randolph’s cap off their books and Andrew Bynum would do just that. If Andrew turns into being the best center in the league than this would be disappointing, but if he never comes back than we would have made a great move.

  18. Jake Fischer
    12. February 2013 at 14:49


    Turner should be moved for one reason and one reason only: He will be asking for a buttload of money once his rookie contract is over. Realistically, the Sixers organization will probably attempt to max-out Bynum and bring in a solid wing player in the $6-8 million range instead of giving that cash to ET.

    Ideally, the Evan would be moved for an expiring contract and nothing else. It doesn’t look like Bynum is going to play more than 15 games this season, if at all. Honestly, I’ve now put all my eggs in the “He’s done for the year” basket. With that, this team is done and it’s time to now focus on next season and the summer offseason.

  19. I am more on point about the 76ers than anyone in the whole world
    12. February 2013 at 15:19

    You know it’s bad when every other post here is “how about this trade…?” LOL. Funny thing is we’re “only” 3 games out of the last playoff spot, yet it feels like 900 games.

    Speaking of that, we get Milwaukee next at their place. If we lose by double digits, then that’s a pretty good indication the team is tuning out DC, who’ll be headed for full meltdown mode in short order.

  20. ken
    12. February 2013 at 15:28

    rick why would they do that trade when they have gasol?

  21. Jeff McMenamin
    12. February 2013 at 15:49


    Geez I miss one day of comments and it seems like the apocalypse has happened. Like “Steve Toll sarcasm” said, we’re still just three games out of a playoff spot with the ASB approaching.

    Bynum will be back Feb. 26 when Thad is ready to come back. Knowing the Sixers ownership, they want to make a spectacle out of his return and that’s their plan.

    To everyone that wants to move Bynum, we’re not. To everyone that wants to move ET, I’d like to hear more responses.


    Evan Turner is 6’7″ and undersized as a SF. Why would the Sixers want to bring in Shumpert to take his place who is even more undersized at 6’5″? Plus, Shumpert’s natural position is PG and we have Holiday. Makes no sense. I agree Novak is one of the best shooters in the NBA, but the Knicks aren’t going to trade him and why do we need yet another shooter?

    You also missed my point on Amare. His contract is $6 million more per year than Thad’s for similar production. Why would the Sixers take that on rather than underpaying a slightly less-productive Thad? Unless Amare brought something else to the table, which he doesn’t. “Dominant” is never a word which should be used to describe Amare.


    Good analysis on Turner. I say try to steal Granger or George from the Pacers. They can’t have both. But, I also think Bynum will be back. If he’s not…The ownership will be crucified.

    Bottom line…This team isn’t in bad shape. They’re just unlucky and by the end of February “FINALLY” you’ll see what was promised to you in the first game of the season.

  22. Steve Toll
    12. February 2013 at 16:25


    The Rockets can sign Bynum outright this offseason.

    Jake Fischer,

    Who do you surmise will pay a hefty sum for the services of Evan “d-leagur” Turner after next season?

  23. Steve Toll
    12. February 2013 at 21:02


    A 76er team with a healthy Thad and Bynum isn’t even a top 16 team, why are you so fixated on making the playoffs?

    Evan Turner is 6’5.75 inches tall, the same as Andre Iguodala. The average “Small Forward” in the NBA is right around that height.

    Iman Shumpert is 6.4.25 inches tall and at this point is purely a defensive player, his offensive game is negative, so he definitely isn’t the guy you want as your PG for any amount of time.

    Amare actually makes $10,000,000 more per season than Thad, not sure where you got the $6 mil number from

    Danny Granger is an unrestricted free agent and Paul George is a restricted free agent after the 13-14 season. Granger will be 31 years old, the same age as Jason Richardson was at the start of this season and Indiana will be matching any deal or just outright giving Paul George a max deal.

    I don’t exactly see a scenario where we can steal either player, and I fail to see how Indiana can’t retain Granger unless someone wants to massively overpay him.

    The team is in terrible shape going forward, it’s so funny that you think otherwise.

    No young+cheap talent, a middling lottery pick on the horizon, held hostage by a guy with knee issues who could eat up 1/3 of the cap, and no cap room to make any serious moves in the future unless you define having $15,000,000 in the 2014 offseason to surround Bynum, Thad, Jrue, J-Rich, Moultrie and our 2013 lottery pick and build a contender.

    A MAX 48 win team for years to come, if healthy, isn’t good shape…

  24. Rick
    12. February 2013 at 21:33


    Even Turner is not a SF. He is only playing SF because we don’t have any, and his height. 6’5 and 6’7 is not a big difference. Shumpert can stick anybody Turner can stick(We don’t even put Turner on (any good) SF’s on defense). We are not going to get back a good SF for Turner. Holiday can’t play PG every possession of the game that’s why we are bringing in so many different back ups now.

    I’m looking at pieces we can put together to build a team. We have no consistent shooters. Dorrell Wright sucks. Who knows when richardson is going to be back and he was inconsistent. Nick Young he is playing better, but we can’t just have one shooter.

    The Amar’e trade. You are probably right about it numbers wise. But, I would take Amar’e over Thad as my PF any day. I love Thad’s game. But, I would do that trade in a heart beat.

    We need a solid SF and I don’t know of any we could get without putting Turner and Thad in the trade. So we need to plug holes in the other positions for the time being, and try to sign one in the offseason.

  25. Jon
    12. February 2013 at 21:37
    Not gonna lie this just seems like the trade of the year, it should happen now. I’m looking at you tony d.

  26. Rick
    12. February 2013 at 21:57


    They could use Gasol as a Pf( remember Pau and Bynum). Or they don’t have to keep Bynum they can sign who ever they are looking to sign with that free space they will have in the offseason with Zach off their books. I don’t believe we will trade Bynum, but it is an option.

  27. Vinnie
    12. February 2013 at 23:04

    Can we just trade teams with the Hawks? I prefer their situation

  28. ken
    12. February 2013 at 23:05

    people please start learning how to psot trades from the nba trade machine correctly

  29. Ransom
    13. February 2013 at 11:32

    Want to get really depressed about the Sixers? answer the following two questions:

    What would you rather have? Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, a lottery pick.


    Iggy, Thaddeus Young, a talented rookie, a lottery pick and freedom from 2 more years of a bad contract??

    So why don’t we have James Harden again?

  30. Steve Toll
    13. February 2013 at 12:35


    That trade wouldn’t work with the cap numbers, we’d have to take on Kendrick Perkins albatross contract.

    OKC also got Perry Jones and another draft pick.

    IF we want to talk about depressing shit: The 76ers Coulda got Ryan Anderson for Vucevic at the beginning of this off season and kept Lou Williams for 5 million a year

  31. Bill
    13. February 2013 at 13:35

    Kyle Lowry would really help in attempting to contain a Chris Paul type guard who seemed to be key to the Clippers high flying show. Our big men do not seem to have the athleticism needed to recover from helping guard Paul who made shot after shot when Spencer attempted to center on keeping the Clippers from the basket. Doesn’t seem like Drue has the quickness to keep up with some of the more talented smaller guards he is defending.

  32. ken
    13. February 2013 at 14:00

    ransom ive been thinking this ever since the harden trade happened. how did we not get him? we had way more positive assets then the rockets and how good would a back court of harden and jrue look for the future

  33. Jeff McMenamin
    13. February 2013 at 19:57


    They are definitely a Top 16 team with a healthy Thad and Bynum.

    Average size of NBA SF is 6’8″ 224…

    The best in the league are all around 6’8″ 230…

    If that 6’6″ assessment is true of Turner…than he is 2 inches below the average and 10 pounds lighter than the best in the league.

    Iman Shumpert would be just as bad on defense if not worse if he was plugged in at SF for defensive purposes.

    You’re right about Amare’s contract…Which makes trying to go out and grab him even more stupid.

    Unless the Pacers truly believe keeping Granger the next two years will give them a major shot at a title, why wouldn’t they trade him now and stick with George at SF moving forward? It would be dumb to make George come off the bench when Granger’s healthy. Trade Granger now and get as much as you can for him. I’d even do a Thad/Turner trade for Granger/Augustin. It would give both teams things they need moving forward.

    Works in the trade machine…

    Bynum will only eat up 1/3 of the cap if he proves to be healthy…Otherwise the Sixers will try to land a top FA (Evans, J Smith, JJ Hickson, Al Jeff, Paul Millsap…Hell even Dwight)

    What they need to do now is find a way to trade Turner. The experiment didn’t work out. Time to move on.

    In no way, shape or form are they a MAX 48 win team for years to come.

    You overrate RyAnd so much and Lou Williams tore his ACL and is out for the year.


    Just forget those Knicks deals. Not happening.

    Z-Bo is too old. Not worth trading for.

  34. Steve Toll
    13. February 2013 at 23:09


    Those links are terrible, which is standard protocol when you are trying to make points.
    Why don’t you just use the NBA Pre-Draft Measurements to prove your argument?
    Because you know that I’ve done my homework already…

    Iman Shumpert is longer, a better athlete and a superior defender to ET at any of the PG-SG-SF positions.

    Granger and George can play SG-SF together, both will be starters when healthy.

    Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Thad+Turner for Granger+Augustin

    Augustin can’t be resigned after this season because of the Cap and Thad+ET > Granger, so the point of that trade would be what exactly?

    The team will need to trade someone for expiring contracts to make a run at Dwight Howard, they currently don’t have enough cap space to sign him outright.

    None of those other players will take the 76ers above a 48 win ceiling going forward.

    Maybe Cleveland would take ET + a 2nd round pick, they can outright absorb his contract.

    You can disagree all you want about the 48 game ceiling, but it doesn’t make it less true. Obviously they could hit up to 51 wins with VARIANCE but that’s the team they top at on average assuming a relatively healthy Bynum and a NON-elite lottery pick.

    Ryan Anderson would be the best player on the 76ers, he is so much better than everyone except a healthy Bynum. Lou Williams got hurt but he was still better than Jrue and even if he isn’t in some bizarro scenario, he only makes 1/2 of Jrue so he is in any scenario more valuable.

    Z-Bo isn’t worth trading for but signing Al Jefferson is??? LOL

  35. Jeff McMenamin
    14. February 2013 at 00:04


    Show me a more accurate assessment from a link that passes your “test” of the average height of a SF in the NBA.

    What’s wrong with the other link? It’s simply a ranking of the top SF’s in the league with their listed heights and weights.

    Why should I use pre-draft measurements to make my arguments Steve? A lot of players come into the NBA at 19…Some came in the league at 18. You’re saying a player can’t grow another inch at least from that age? The certified height and weight work for me.

    Shumpert is an injury-plauged role player. Not a good sign for a player at his age (think Andrew Bynum).

    Turner also beats him in all your favorite “advanced stats” this season so how again is he better? Unless you’re discrediting these stats as being a valid measurement of a players ability.

    The Pacers will start Granger and George at SF-SG, but that doesn’t mean it’s the right move. Their natural positions are SF. George is versatile enough to play SG, but when you’ve played an all-star season at SF why would you get switched back to SG? You know Granger would never play SG. Imagine if Scottie Pippen was having an all-star season at SF and hypothetically Carmelo Anthony was coming back from an injury. Would you move Carmelo to the 2 or Pippen? It’s basically the same scenario. Granger’s a better scorer (Carmelo), George is better all-around (Pippen) but their positions overlap and investing $22 million a year on the same position is a ton of money when you can try to go after a true 2 guard.

    Thad+ET aren’t as valuable as Granger. If Bynum doesn’t pan out the Sixers will have PLENTY of money to sign both Augustin and Granger to long-term deals. Granger is one of the best SF’s in the league. Thad will never fit the mold of an NBA PF so right now he’s pretty much an overpaid 6th man. You always trash Turner so why are you all of a sudden supporting him?

    Jrue, Granger and a dominant big man will make the Sixers a 48+ win team for the next few years easily. Granger is only 28 and coming off of an All-Star season. Bynum won’t be able to get a MAX deal after everything that’s happened this season. He’ll put up good numbers, but not elite when he comes back. Most likely the Sixers will sign him to a 5-year $80 million deal with a lot of incentives based on injury. The salaries will work fine between those three and will put the Sixers in a MUCH better position moving forward. I’d rank them among the best trio’s in the NBA.

    Ryan Anderson will never be anything more than a good role player in the NBA. He’ll never be an all-star…I can guarantee you that. He’ll be close to the stars in the 3-pt shooting contest, but that’s as close as he’ll ever get.

    Lou Williams can’t play defense, can’t pass and jacks up close to as many shots as Swaggy P. In no way is he anywhere close to being more valuable than Jrue.

    Z-Bo is 31, Big Al is 28. Randolph has been known throughout his career as a headcase and tore his MCL last season, Big Al has a full bill of health with no issues of bad behavior. The Grizz are one of the best in the west and will keep Z-Bo, Utah is slightly above-average and Jefferson wants out. Z-Bo’s played 11 seasons in the NBA and has a career WS/48 average of .115, Jefferson’s played eight seasons and has a career WS/48 average of .129. Jefferson has a better PER, FG%, PPG, BLK, AST, etc…Than Z-Bo.

    Bottom line…Yes I’d take Jefferson over Z-Bo any day of the week and it’s not LOL worthy at all.

  36. Steve Toll
    14. February 2013 at 10:44


    The NBA pre-draft measurements work just fine, believe what you want

    “Shumpert is an injury plagued role player”…… Who missed 0 games from injury in college and hurt his knee last season but is back on the court. I also notice that you didn’t disagree with my assessment of his ability as a player, whereas you called him a “pg” and insinuated he can run an NBA offense right now when he is in fact a negative on offense and a + defender.

    LOL Shumpert just came off an ACL injury and you couldn’t chart/quantify defense for all the gold in the world

    Any talk that Granger+George can’t play the wings together is complete nonsense.

    Listen up, Granger is 2 months from 30 years old, has Knee problems, before this season he missed 42 of 328 regular season games or 13% of the games AND that isn’t including this last knee injury which has kept out the entire season.

    You just suggested that AFTER next season, the 76ers should sign Granger to a long-term deal, seriously?

    You talk about the cap and have literally 0 idea about anything. Just stop.

    LOL, “I’d rank them the best NBA trio’s” Ummmmmm what???

    Ryan Anderson > The whole 76ers team except a healthy Bynum AINEC. I could explain it all to you but you’d dismiss it because you are incompetent.

    Why does Lou outpace Jrue in all the advanced stats? Why was Lou the superior passer last year, who turned it over less and scored more efficiently?

    Why are you comparing 2 players numbers over their whole career when we are talking about having them NEXT season? How are either players stats at 22,23,24,25 in any way relevant?

    You bring up Z-Bo’s troubled past and still manage to screw it up, LOL, read this:

    It’s LOL that you condone potential getting locked into Al Jefferson for 4 or 5 years, he is Carlos Boozer 2.0, LOLU

  37. Steve Toll
    14. February 2013 at 13:39

    Start Explaining…

  38. Jeff McMenamin
    14. February 2013 at 17:03

    Oh Steve,

    Once again you are wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong some more.

    Apparently you are smarter than doctors regarding the growth of a human body…

    Paul George grew two inches while he was in the NBA…That’s just one example, but here’s some more…

    Keep going by your wrong numbers though…

    Also…During the 2009-10 season at Georgia Tech, Iman Shumpert underwent arthroscopic surgery to repair a damaged meniscus in his right knee on Dec. 3, and missed six games.

    Hmm…Meniscus tears to both knees at the age of 22…Let’s give him a MAX contract!

    I’ll answer the RyAnderson/Jrue debate when you answer this…
    “Turner also beats Shumpert in all your favorite “advanced stats” this season so how again is he better? Unless you’re discrediting these stats as being a valid measurement of a players ability.

    Never insinuated that Shumpert was a good PG, said it was his natural position..Compared to the outrageous idea of playing SF at 6’5″.

    I never said Granger/George can’t play the wings together…What I said was…
    “The Pacers will start Granger and George at SF-SG, but that doesn’t mean it’s the right move. Their natural positions are SF.”

    Granger has an injury-filled past, but a healthy Granger is one of the Top 5 at his position in the league. Bynum when healthy is also one of the Top 5 when healthy at his position. Jrue is borderline Top 15, but with those two who knows. All three have been all-stars in the past two seasons.

    How would this not be one of the best trio’s in the NBA? Are you a moron? The Sixers would have two seasons of Granger before they had to decide on a new contract. Basically a better investment than an out-of-position Thad+Turner.

    I have every idea of what I’m talking about regarding the salary cap. The question is, do you?

    Why are we even talking about Jrue compared to Lou? Lou is out for the year…Move on with your life. It was devastating news to me too!

    Oh wow…A “Grantland” article clears Z-Bo’s name. Send him to Kill-adelphia and see if his rap-sheet stays clean.

    Carlos Boozer has had a great NBA career. At 28, same age as Big Al, he averaged 20 points, 12 rebounds and 3 assists on 56% shooting. He had a WS/48 of .178. He hasn’t had a WS/48 lower than .100 his whole career.

    Get on my level Steve Toll.

  39. Steve Toll
    14. February 2013 at 20:51

    LOL Lil Man,

    Sick youtube link.

    Paul George grew 2 inches?

    Better call up NBA and get that changed.

    Shumpert is coming off major surgery, has a small sample size, PLUS You can’t chart defense, sooooooo you ask a stupid question in an attempt because READ ABOVE THIS, to be like mehhhh advanced stats.

    Granger and George’s natural position is SF because you says so??? LOL

    You have every idea about the salary cap, Lil man?????

    You sure……..??? Because you said the team has 2 years of Granger in some hypothetical trade scenario with Thad+ET (LOL U) but Granger’s contract EXPIRES after next season, what you talking now?

    Please explain how Jrue > RAnderson, it’s impossible.

    Do you even know where to find advanced metrics? Ask your boy who you did that nervier what he thinks.

    I keep bringing up Lou because Lou> Jrue All day long

    Boozer is so bad on D, he makes Lou seem elite

  40. Jeff McMenamin
    15. February 2013 at 00:12


    Eat your Wheaties and maybe one day you’ll hit a growth spurt to at least “height wise” be on my level. You’ll always be stunted Steve to me otherwise.

    Touche, touche on George. Everywhere lists him at 6’8″ though..

    Yahoo is most accurate at 6’9″

    Here’s an article even did on the subject..and never changed his height.

    Don’t know what to tell you on that one.

    It’s besides the point though…Because you said (and I totally just disproved your statement) that the Pre-draft measurements are the most accurate. There’s so many recent cases of players such as George growing over an inch once they enter the League.

    Shumpert blows on offense. Using a movie analogy, Shumpert’s like an extra. He ain’t getting more than 10 minutes of screen time, but he’s good to have around to bring coffee and doughnuts for the stars. In all honesty…I wouldn’t wanna face this dude…!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/iman-shumpert.jpg
    But, I wouldn’t be surprised if he A. Tears an ACL/MCL tomorrow B. Joins forces with Kenny “Sky” Walker to create a bring back the fade campaign C. Pursue’s his rap career: or D. Get’s an offer by Samsung to become the Iphone destroyer…

    Show me your almighty “chart” of defense…Haaaa!! I watch games. I see the production of player A compared to player B. That’s the best way to “chart” defense. There’s not enough statistical tools available to correctly quantify defense. You have to watch games, which clearly you don’t. I can say that generally if you’re 2 inches and 20 pounds stronger than your opponent, you’re going to defend him better. Obviously quickness changes that statement to some extent too. There’s a reason why Iverson led the league in steals so many times, but blew when it came to sticking his opponents. Thad is good for this reason as well, he creates a lot of turnovers with his quick hands. It never ends with you…

    Explain to me how SF is not George and Granger’s natural positions…When they’re both all-star SF’s and not in any other position? Show me some cases where this has happened before.

    As for…
    “You have every idea about the salary cap, Lil man?????

    You sure……..??? Because you said the team has 2 years of Granger in some hypothetical trade scenario with Thad+ET (LOL U) but Granger’s contract EXPIRES after next season, what you talking now?”

    Did I say 2 years??? Nope. I said two seasons. Aren’t we in the 2012-13 season? Isn’t the 2013-14 season coming up? Stunted Steve…What does 1+1=?

    If the Sixers bring in Granger, they can try him out for the rest of the season…He’ll have a whole offseason to get healthy. The same goes for Bynum.

    The only difference is the Sixers would have the choice to extend Bynum, whereas they won’t be pressed yet to re-sign Granger and they’ll have an entire season of a healthy/back to form Granger. If Bynum takes a lower deal (which is likely), than the Sixers will have plenty of money to keep Granger as well. How is that core not one of the best in the league when healthy? You haven’t explained!

    LeBron James is only like a year and a half younger than Granger…Do you think he’ll be slowing down in two years? What makes you think Granger will?

    As for Jrue>RyAnd…It’s simple.

    Anderson doesn’t do anything great…except hit three’s. He’s also a horrible defender.

    Jrue scores great, passes great, reads defenses well, dribbles well and when he has help in the post/help in general plays great defense. He’s a five-tool player.

    Anderson is the white Rashard Lewis…Only Lewis was an a lot better rebounder. You have a white bias or something…

    You overrate Hawes, Greivis, Calderon, Splitter, Pau, Varejao among others so much and I’m still trying to figure it out.

    Lou is lounging with his friends right now drinking vodka and sprites…no ice’s just the way he likes them. Jrue is about to play in the ASG. Somebody’s jealin and it ain’t Holiday.

    In only four of his 11 seasons in the NBA has Boozer had a DWS below 1.8. He’s averaged nearly a 3 rating for his career. He’s had one season of 4.6 and two of 4.3. Your boy RyAnd has surpassed a rating of 1.8 just twice in his five seasons in the league to a whopping high of 2.5. This season it’s at .8 ….

    I’d even take Boozer over Ryan Anderson this season. You’re such a biased analyst it’s not even funny.

  41. Steve Toll
    15. February 2013 at 10:32

    Boozer > Ryan Anderson for this year???????

    LOL U

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