LEARNING FROM HISTORY

Posted by: Jake Fischer
04/26/13 9:54 am EST

Growing up in the late 90s and early 00s, I developed an affinity for the Cartoon Network program, Ed, Edd n Eddy. The animated show featured three boys who wrecked havoc on their parents and really just lived their daily lives in their cul-de-sac kooky pandemonium.

Thus, when the 76ers, who were then led by Chairman Ed Snider and General Manager Ed Stefanski, fired former head coach Eddie Jordan, I wrote a crafty blog post that constructed a conspiracy on how Ed Stefanski and Eddie Jordan in 2010 (who had been friends from their days with the New Jersey Nets) worked to derail this dilapidated organization.

Now, looking back on my adolescence, and knowing what I now know about the NBA, I realize that the only legitimate conspiracies in the League only involve officiating and injuries.  However, I still truthfully believe that the Ed, Ed and Eddie era of the Sixers set back this organization to where they are now.

When you really look at it, the Sixers haven’t been truly successful since Allen Iverson and Larry Brown were rocking the First Union Center crowd.  Since then, The Sixers have lacked the superstar and solid coach (Editor’s note: Jake is not a Doug Collins “guy”.) they need to be a legitimate contender.  It was Stefanki’s job to fill those holes five years ago.

I met Ed Stefanski in a Wachovia Center Club Box during the second half of a meaningless late-season Sixers game in the spring of 2008.  Stefanski was meeting many season ticket holders, shaking hands and kissing babies.  A lot of people in the room just said it was nice to meet him and he joked how he had a big summer ahead of him.  I was point blank and my early teenage self asked Stefanski, “Who is your top free agent priority this off-season?”  The man stared back at me through his oval glasses for a few seconds and said something along the lines of, “We’re getting Elton Brand, kid. And I don’t care what it takes.”

Today, people are so adamant about the Sixers not properly researching Andrew Bynum’s health before trading for him.  Five years ago, NOBODY ever truly questioned the Sixers about Elton Brand’s health even though he was coming off a torn Achilles.

Stefanski didn’t care, either.  Instead, he shelled out $82 million over 5 years to sign Brand, but he didn’t stop there.  In search for a superstar perimeter player, Stefanski awarded Andre Iguodala with a fat $80 million deal of his own, hoping he would become Philly’s next All-Star AI.

Moving forward, here are some other questionable personnel decisions Stefanski made during his time in Philadunkia:

He traded Reggie Evans for Jason Kapono’s $6 million contract to sit on the bench for two seasons.  He hired Eddie Jordan and Doug Collins to be the head coaches of young, athletic teams.  He signed Royal Ivey…which led to Royal Ivey spending a second stint with the Sixers this season.

Bottom line: Stefanski never knew how to adequately build a team from top to bottom and a match a crop of players with a compatible coach.

In search of Philly’s next superstar, he paid Andre Iguodala, a defense-first swingman, money that a 25-point per game score-first closer makes.  To find a rock in the paint, he added a hobbled, past-his-prime undersized power forward to a roster of run and gun players.  He hired a head coach in Jordan whose Princeton offense never would have worked with those free-flowing players. Then, he hires Doug Collins for that same young core.  A core that doesn’t respond the best to a preacher and responds better to fun, looser atmosphere.

Back in the spring of 2008, the fans and media in the Philadelphia talked about the state of the 76ers just like they are now.  “This summer will set the tone for the next five years.”  “We have some nice young pieces we just have to build around them.”  “We have cap for this offseason, who should we bring in?”

The Sixers are only in this position this summer because Stefanski and the Ed, Ed and Eddie era failed to capitalize on the last core of young players.  They failed to maximize the last opportunity and summer that could have launched the Sixers march to contention.

Yes, you can say that this team made the playoffs twice since Stefanski came to the City of Brotherly Love.  But, they only won one round and they were never higher than a 6-seed in the lowly Eastern Conference.  Yes, Stefanski drafted Jrue Holiday, the young piece this team is now so fortunate to build around, but he failed to bring in a coach and a supporting cast to maximize his talent (granted he was only in Philly for two of Jrue’s seasons).

Ed Stefanski failed to transition this organization from the Iverson era, and that has plagued this team to where they stand now. The Spurs smoothly transitioned from the David Robinson era to the Tim Duncan era.  The Lakers have prepared to transition from the Kobe era by trading for Dwight Howard.  Even the Denver Nuggets have been able to change their franchise’s face and remain relevant.

Now, we all make mistakes in life, so you can’t totally blame Stefanski for what happened to this franchise.

I just hope Joshua Harris and Adam Aron — who are now in the exact same position good ole Ed was in five years ago — will learn from the mistakes of the Ed, Ed and Eddie regime.

We don’t want history to repeat itself.

 

Jake Fischer is a Scribe for Philadunkia.  You can follow him on Twitter @JakeLFischer.

 

You can follow us on Twitter @philadunkia


 
 
 

64 Responses to “LEARNING FROM HISTORY”

  1. Steve Toll
    26. April 2013 at 12:45

    Jake,

    Total Games, Minutes Played, Total Salary

    LEBRON: 298 Games 11,409 MP $60 Milliom
    Iguodala: 293 Games 11,167 MP $49.4 Million
    D-WADE: 281 Games 10,288 MP $60 Million
    Carmelo: 267 Games 9,537 MP $65.9 Million
    Pierce: 293 Games 10,295 MP $67 Milliom
    Deng: 255 Games 9,653 MP $43.4 Million
    G-Force: 267 Games 10,556 MP $38 Million
    Iso-Joe: 287 Games 10,686 MP $63.5 Million

    Cost on a Per Minute Basis:

    LEBRON: $5259.00
    Iguodala: $4423.75
    D-WADE: $5832.04
    Carmelo: $6909.93
    Pierce: $6508.01
    Deng : $4495.01
    G-Force $3599.84
    Iso Joe: $5942.35

    Please continue to talk about Iguodala and how he was paid too much $. Seems like pretty good value to me.

  2. richard
    26. April 2013 at 13:13

    bottom line 80mil contracts are meant for players that are shu-in all stars year in and year out and are the foundation to your team being a championship contender and iguodala isn’t one of those players and he got the 80mil contract so yea he was paid too much money

  3. GaryH
    26. April 2013 at 13:15

    @Steve Toll
    How do you think good value counts on Total Games, Minutes Played, and Total Salary.

    DWade, Carmelo, Pierce, Lebron score more and are all much better then Dre.

    Deng and Joe are debatable. But just because you played a lot of games and minutes doesn’t mean the value of the salary was good. His defense was good, but not good enough to warrant that paycheck. Dre was no where near a game changer. So why get paid game changer money. Agree with the writer of this article. Dre got paid like he was a 25 ppg player.

  4. Steve Toll
    26. April 2013 at 14:14

    Richard and Gary,

    Over that 4 year period in the entire NBA

    32nd in Points
    http://bkref.com/tiny/S0WwL

    44th in Rebounds
    http://bkref.com/tiny/aqK5V

    15th in Assists
    http://bkref.com/tiny/vz8Wl

    7th in Steals
    http://bkref.com/tiny/dPjiu

    See if you can figure this one out on your own
    http://bkref.com/tiny/Eekow

  5. Jake Fischer
    26. April 2013 at 17:57

    Steve,

    I don’t care about advanced stats and how Iguodala compared to other players in the league. He was not a perennial All-Star who led this team to playoff success. That was his job. He job was to be the focal point of the Sixers and lead them to at least a conference finals. They never got out of the second round and never were seeded higher than 6th in the East. That’s a failure of 5 years. I don’t know what you want from the Sixers, but I want them to be a legitimate contender. I don’t want them to feature guys who have great stats and but don’t win.

    Gary H and Richard,

    Thanks for reading and I respect your opinions!

  6. Wang
    26. April 2013 at 18:47

    Iggy’s contract is hardly a bad one considering his unique skill sets–average scoring ability, top defense, assisting ability and durability. As people call him a poor man LeBron.

    Bad decisions went to signing Elton Brand, kinda like Bynum signing, sticking with Princeton offense among other things.

    This team needs to find its identity and at least a single thing they could take pride in. Right now, you see this team where there is no single best area they do particularly well. Bad offensive team, no big man, bad in transition, so-so defense, ineffective point-guard(sorry), and lack of promising talent on the bench.

  7. Steve Toll
    26. April 2013 at 19:03

    Jake,

    Fact or Fiction: Philadelphia beats Boston in the playoffs if ET doesn’t play that series

    ET took 100 possessions that ended in a shot or free throw, he scored 75 points. ET had more Turnovers than Assists

  8. Steve Toll
    26. April 2013 at 19:28

    Jake,

    Please name ALL the players whom you’d prefer to have paid $66,000,000 from the 2008-2009 season up through 2012-2013 instead of Iguodala

    Here are the numbers from 08-09 through 12-13

    26th in Win Shares
    http://bkref.com/tiny/Fodul

    35th in Points
    http://bkref.com/tiny/MSIGX

    45th in Rebounds
    http://bkref.com/tiny/9OVZy

    13th in Assists
    http://bkref.com/tiny/MWN1C

    8th in Steals
    http://bkref.com/tiny/xlK7j

    74th in Blocks
    http://bkref.com/tiny/rdfsV

  9. Jake Fischer
    26. April 2013 at 20:53

    Steve,

    You can’t blame a 7 game series loss on one player. It’s a team game Steve. You’re precious win share stat shows just how little a single player (not named Lebron) truly impacts the entire game. There’s 10 players on the court, dude.

    As to Iguodala’s contract, I didn’t say I didn’t want him on my team. He’s just obviously not a a franchise player/closer/elite All-Star. He was paid on potential, not on value. There weren’t many free agent options during the Summer of 2008. Rudy Gay was really the only player even remotely compatable to Igudala. And neither of them are work $16 million a year. They’re $12 million players

  10. Steve Toll
    26. April 2013 at 21:23

    Jake,

    Fact or Fiction (in your opinion): Philadelphia beats Boston in the playoffs if ET doesn’t play that series

    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL at Iggy = Gay, for realz?

    How did you come up with the figure of $12,000,000 per year?

    Iguodala the LAST 5 SEASONS TOTAL IS ……….
    35th in Points, 45th in Rebounds, 13th in Assists, 8th in Steals, 74th in blocks while being in the top 1% of Perimeter Defenders

    HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU WANT FROM 1 PLAYER OVER 5 YEARS?

    You make this statement

    “He was not a perennial All-Star who led this team to playoff success. That was his job. He job was to be the focal point of the Sixers and lead them to at least a conference finals. They never got out of the second round and never were seeded higher than 6th in the East. That’s a failure of 5 years.”

    And follow it up later with this statement

    “It’s a team game Steve. You’re precious win share stat shows just how little a single player (not named Lebron) truly impacts the entire game. There’s 10 players on the court, dude.”

    So which is it?

  11. Aamir
    26. April 2013 at 21:39

    LOL you guys arguing makes my day… anyway I don’t think Iggy is an 80 mil player, but I still liked him, kinda. Though, letting him go set my boy Jrue free. I think I’m gonna go watch some JHolla highlight mixes to make myself feel better.

  12. Steve Toll
    26. April 2013 at 21:48

    Aamir,

    How much do you think that Iguodala has been worth the last 5 years?

  13. Jon
    26. April 2013 at 23:10

    Steve, this isn’t even a hypothetical situation. We know what happened, we know the sixers have never made it to the conference finals with iguodala. You keep bringing up ET and the Boston series but you seem to be forgetting Derrick Rose blowing out his knee. We got lucky and there’s no way we would have even played Boston had that not happened. Also, Boston was literally the best possible matchup in the playoffs for last years team do to their age, occasional offensive struggles, and overall style of play.

    Jake, great article! Really liked it!

  14. Steve Toll
    27. April 2013 at 01:08

    I wanna throw a huge “LOL U” to the people who called George Karl a good head coach, he is awful

  15. Ryan
    27. April 2013 at 01:55

    Iguodala averaged 20,5,5 on a team that went to the playoffs, he also averaged 12 ppg on a playoff team. When he was asked to score he did, When DC wanted him to defer to the other guys he did that too. Can’t blame the last 5 years on Dre

  16. Matt
    27. April 2013 at 11:33

    Steve, your $/min analogy is terrible, but if you want to use be that way, then fine.

    Here’s another ratio for you then, salary to PER. Iggy is vastly overpaid on his production.
    Player Salary PER $$/PER
    LeBron 17,545,000 31.67 553,994
    Iguodala 14,968,250 15.27 980,239
    Wade 17,182,000 24.04 714,725
    Melo 19,444,503 24.83 783,105
    Pierce 16,790,345 19.14 877,238
    Deng 13,305,000 15.12 879,960

  17. Ixhej
    27. April 2013 at 11:36

    Steve,

    Dres totals are high because he played in just about every game, so it’s only fair to use averages instead. Also, you can’t blame turner solely on a playoff series loss, but you can blame a guy for not living up to his offensive potential as iguodala failed to do. His advanced stats will be good because he was relatively efficient and an excellent defender, which advanced stats will always favor more than anything else. It won’t account for the fact that he tried to play hero ball too many times in the 4th quarter, and was never a legitamate enough offensive threat, which he could have been, to become a superstar. The advanced stats will say he’s a superstar because he was efficient, but they hide iggys short comings.

  18. Ixhej
    27. April 2013 at 11:38

    Also, it’s not necessarily dres fault that they were never a great team, that is on the management.

  19. Joe
    27. April 2013 at 12:21

    Oops I made a typo! Meant to say “I would be fascinated for you to tell me how your statement that George Karl is an awful head coach correlates with this statement that you made:

    “Everyone knows that George Karl is a personal favorite of mine. A metric that he likes to use is Road wins are +1 and Home losses are -1. The -3s of the NBA are Philly, Toronto and Phoenix. The only teams worse are New Orleans, Charlotte, Sacramento, Detroit, Cleveland and Washington”

    http://philadunkia.com/?p=7969

  20. Steve Toll
    27. April 2013 at 13:07

    Matt,

    Over that 4 year period in the entire NBA

    32nd in Points
    http://bkref.com/tiny/S0WwL

    44th in Rebounds
    http://bkref.com/tiny/aqK5V

    15th in Assists
    http://bkref.com/tiny/vz8Wl

    7th in Steals
    http://bkref.com/tiny/dPjiu

    See if you can figure this one out on your own
    http://bkref.com/tiny/Eekow

  21. Steve Toll
    27. April 2013 at 13:24

    Ryan,

    You are right. I’m wondering how long it will take Jrue to be treated as Iggy did, thoughts?

    Jon,

    You fail to realize how bad ET was that series, only equaled by how bad of a coach DC was

    Ixhej,

    It really isn’t right to use averages, because Minutes played does count

    Matt,

    PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW PER RELATES TO DEFENSIVE IMPACT

  22. Jon
    27. April 2013 at 17:00

    Heyyyyoooooo!!!! Let’s see how he gets out of this one!

  23. Steve Toll
    27. April 2013 at 19:13

    Joe,

    It’s very simple, it was SARCASM. Everyone knows that I think George Karl is terrible

  24. Jon
    27. April 2013 at 21:50

    Steve, that’s not the point. You keep saying last years team was a great team, one that should have played in the ECF. However, they shouldn’t have even made it past the bulls if it hasn’t been for the rose injury. Let’s say the coach of your choice is the sixers coach last year not Doug Collins, and he doesn’t use turner as much but uses Lou Williams/Jodie Meeks more heavily.. Do the sixers get past the bulls if rose Is healthy?

  25. Matt
    27. April 2013 at 22:15

    Blah blah blah Steve. Your arguments are pathetic. You tried to base value on $$ per minutes played. According to you then, iggy is a better value than lebron.

    I’ll answer your questions like you choose to, which is to ignore any valid argument and spew some other random nonsense. That was my point with the per argument. But obviously your feeble mind couldn’t comprehend that.

  26. Matt
    27. April 2013 at 22:20

    Lol at Steve backtracking on George Karl. Now claiming he sucks but previously saying it loved him

  27. Joe
    28. April 2013 at 07:02

    Jon,

    Steve can’t get out of this one, I’ve caught him out again – it’s too easy!

    COME AT THE KING, YOU BEST NOT MISS

  28. Jake Fischer
    28. April 2013 at 11:44

    Jon,

    Thanks for reading and the kind words!

    To everyone,

    I’m glad you enjoy Steve’s antics.

    Steve,

    My opinion on what players are worth $$ wise differs from the general logic. For example, some may think Thad Young is worth $12 million a year, but he’s not. He’s properly paid. In my opinion, the top defensive player in the league isn’t worth $16 million a year if he’s not bringing you what that money calls for on the offensive end. In terms of money, offense is far more valuable than defense. Yes, defense wins championships, but you have to be able to score the ball to win games.

    Basketball is a team game and one player on has so much of an impact on the ENTIRE game. However, the money that the Sixers paid Iguodala was money that is supposed to go to a game-changing player in the final five minutes of a game. Iguodala never was that. We all know what happened… You can’t just keep throwing out stats and asking me questions based off of them when the eye test shows that this team was never truly a contender in the 5 years with Iguodala as its face. It’s simple. Stop linking to basketball reference to make all these points when the defining argument is THEY NEVER MADE AN EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS.

  29. Jake Fischer
    28. April 2013 at 11:48

    Everyone,

    By the way, I blamed the last 5 years on Ed Stefanski, Ed Snider and Eddie Jordan … not Andre Iguodala. Steve Toll just turned it into an argument about Iguodala and all of his stats in every single category known to man.

  30. Steve Toll
    28. April 2013 at 12:17

    Jon,

    If the 76ers had a better coach, they wouldn’t have been the 8th seed in the playoffs last year. The 76ers were not better than a healthy Bulls team, but since injuries count in basketball………

    Yes or No, ET doesn’t play and Philly beats Boston last year?

    Matt,

    You stupidity continues to amaze me. NOBODY IS A BETTER VALUE THAN LEBRON. A Rolls Royce on Sale for $1 isn’t as good of a value as a Bugatti on sale for $2.

    Please enlighten on on counterpart data, RAPM, and how PER encompasses defensive impact.

    Over that 4 year period in the entire NBA

    32nd in Points
    http://bkref.com/tiny/S0WwL

    44th in Rebounds
    http://bkref.com/tiny/aqK5V

    15th in Assists
    http://bkref.com/tiny/vz8Wl

    7th in Steals
    http://bkref.com/tiny/dPjiu

    See if you can figure this one out on your own
    http://bkref.com/tiny/Eekow

    WHY DO YOU KEEP IGNORING THIS

  31. Steve Toll
    28. April 2013 at 12:49

    SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME THAT PIERCE AND MELO HAVE BEEN MORE VALUABLE THAN IGGY OVER THE PAST 5 YEARS

    Jake,

    What you fail to understand is that every possession is equal.

    Iguodala has made $49,000,000 in the 4 years he played with the 76ers after he signed his $80,000,000 contrac.

    You said Iguodala isn’t worth his contract, then said he was worth 12 mil a year and now you know he has been paid 12.25 million a year when he was with the 76ers.

    You and everyone else want to ignore the production that Iggy gave over the 4 years after he signed his new deal:

    Over that 4 year period in the entire NBA

    32nd in Points
    http://bkref.com/tiny/S0WwL

    44th in Rebounds
    http://bkref.com/tiny/aqK5V

    15th in Assists
    http://bkref.com/tiny/vz8Wl

    7th in Steals
    http://bkref.com/tiny/dPjiu

    See if you can figure this one out on your own
    http://bkref.com/tiny/Eekow

    IGGY ALSO PLAYED ELITE DEFENSE FOR A TON OF MINUTES OVER THAT TIME
    http://bkref.com/tiny/s9Ge2

    To put that into perspective the difference between Durant (1st) and Iggy (3rd)in playing time was 568 minutes over that 4 year period, that is basically the same distance between Iggy and the guy who played the 12th most minutes
    http://bkref.com/tiny/WwPBU

    Here is the top 100 in minutes played from 08-09 through 11-12

    http://bkref.com/tiny/E2dxu

  32. Ixhej
    28. April 2013 at 13:19

    Steve,

    Using iguodala’s totals are unjust too since many marquee players or role players that are better than him and would probably have higher totals were injured in that 4 year period.

  33. Joe
    28. April 2013 at 16:06

    Okay Steve I’ll give you that one; maybe you were being sarcastic. I thought you were doing that thing you do where you contradict things you’ve said in the past because you’re clutching at straws to prove a point based on half-baked ideas and biased conjecture, but this time maybe not. Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day, right?

  34. Jon
    28. April 2013 at 21:48

    Steve, yes they would beat the celtics. However, the point you’re trying to make that they would have made it to the conference finals thus justifying them as a top team with Andre iguodala is false. That team with or without Evan turner is still a worse team than the celtics, they just happened to be a nightmare matchup for them. Also, they win no more than one game against the heat. And finally, yes injuries are a part of the game, but if Derrick rose doesnt get hurt the sixers lose that series and it’s another first round exit in the iggy era.

  35. Abc
    28. April 2013 at 22:33

    Steve,

    Ok, so he played a lot of minutes. Good for him for staying in good condition. That doesn’t make him a superstar though. And it also is the reason why his totals are pretty high. Iguodala was a very good player. Nobody’s saying he isn’t. But you have definitly overrated him. He was a very good defender, good passer, ok scorer, pretty good rebounder. If he was a true superstar, he would be great in one o two categories. But he wasn’t.

    Can you explain to me why he was a superstar without using stats?

  36. Steve Toll
    28. April 2013 at 22:54

    Ixhej,

    You’re kidding, right? Health matters, if you don’t think so HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

    Define “role players” and Name 1 “role player” who is better than iguodala

  37. RYN_JAY
    29. April 2013 at 00:13

    Bring back Pat Croce!!!!

  38. Steve Toll
    29. April 2013 at 01:25

    GK, Plays his Centers 130 of 192 possible minutes through 4 games and just overall does a terrible, terrible George Karl type of coaching clinic

    The whole Warriors team goes HAM (LOL VARIANCE)

    Can’t wait for all the idiots to come out and go crazy over this series. It is going to be sooooooo funny listening to ya’ll clown it up!!!!!!!!!

  39. Ransom
    29. April 2013 at 08:51

    STEVE…

    “32nd in Points
    http://bkref.com/tiny/S0WwL

    44th in Rebounds
    http://bkref.com/tiny/aqK5V

    15th in Assists
    http://bkref.com/tiny/vz8Wl

    7th in Steals
    http://bkref.com/tiny/dPjiu

    See if you can figure this one out on your own
    http://bkref.com/tiny/Eekow

    none of those rankings are “2nd” yet he’s second in cost-per minute played…shouldn’t those match up closer if he’s a goot player? or at least come close? ESPECIALLY because those are aggregate ranks, not per-minute. Which means that Andre’s noted high number of minutes should jack those numbers up over those who might play more efficiently.

  40. Ransom
    29. April 2013 at 08:54

    oh, and Steve, the reason people have this CRAZY ideal that guys like Melo and Paul Pierce are better than Andre, is because they are leaders and best players on TEAMS THAT ACTUALLY WIN.

    Obviously some of that is subjected and based on supporting casts etc. but it also helps to override stats a little because ultimately it’s all about winning.

    To reduce it to absurdity, all the advanced and most regular stats say Monta Ellis is trainwreck, but if he’s the leader/best player on a 60-win team…I’m not worried about those stats.

    Stats can say what they will about Melo vs. Iggy (this year they loudly point to Melo being better, but lets ignore that for your sake). But Melo has been the best player on a playoff team all but 1 year he’s been in the league. Iggy? He’s held that role once? twice? Exactly.

  41. Adam
    29. April 2013 at 09:28

    Toll why are u ignoring how blatantly terrible iggy and lou williams were in the playoffs last year, especially in the boston series?

    Hell, i cant remember the game, but lou lost a game single handedly by taking bad shots early in the shotclock in a game that we were winning, allowing boston to take the lead at the end.

    And the sixers were not good last year…. Blatantly mediocre. And if stephon curry has taught us anything this year its that elit scoring matters…. The sixers didnt have anything close to reliable scoring in the playoffs in the iggy era.

  42. Matt
    29. April 2013 at 09:35

    Hmm way to backtrack Steve. First you post this:

    Cost on a Per Minute Basis:

    LEBRON: $5259.00
    Iguodala: $4423.75

    Then state nobody is a better value than lebron.

    But more importantly, you continue to ignore the last two years if iggys contract where he is vastly overpaid to the 12.5 mil average.

    12-13 $14,968,250
    13-14 $16,154,750

    You have to take this into account about whether he is currently worth that money. He is not.

  43. Steve Toll
    29. April 2013 at 10:11

    ABC,

    Iguodala in the 4 years after he signed his contract………..

    percentile based numbers

    91% in Scoring
    96% in Assists
    88% in Rebounding
    99% in DEFENSE

    What else do you want from 1 player>

  44. Steve Toll
    29. April 2013 at 10:33

    Ransom,

    Explain how Iggy is 2nd in cost from these numbers?
    Please rank these guys on defense from 08/09-11-12 based on your opinion

    LEBRON: $5259.00
    Iguodala: $4423.75
    D-WADE: $5832.04
    Carmelo: $6909.93
    Pierce: $6508.01
    Deng : $4495.01
    G-Force $3599.84
    Iso Joe: $5942.35

    Paul Pierce was the gold standard for winning before KG+RAY+emergence of Rondo, those 3 clowns should be lucky to have joined a WINNER like PP when they did.

    PP, KG and Ray were 8-16 in playoff series before they joined up
    http://bkref.com/tiny/Zgq6c

  45. Steve Toll
    29. April 2013 at 10:35

    Matt,

    You stupidity continues to amaze me. NOBODY IS A BETTER VALUE THAN LEBRON. A Rolls Royce on Sale for $1 isn’t as good of a value as a Bugatti on sale for $2.

    Please enlighten on on counterpart data, RAPM, and how PER encompasses defensive impact.

  46. Matt
    29. April 2013 at 22:49

    Steve, I don’t care about your stupid arguments about defense. I’m merely commenting on your stupid analysis of cost per minutes played, which tells you nothing of a players quality. That is why I talked about cost vs per. It’s a pointless ratio just like your initial one. However you continue to fail to see the connection as I continue to mock you for it. I thoroughly enjoy your lack of awareness. I never said iggy was a bad player. I’m stating he’s not currently worth is CURRENT salary. Please enlighten me on how he is NOW worth 15 mil this season and over 16 mil next season. You can’t, bc he’s not worth that kind of money now and he wasn’t the type of player that can lead any team deep in the playoffs.

  47. Ransom
    30. April 2013 at 07:32

    Steve, you’ll note i mentioned the perception of winning as the best player on a team. Regardless, everyone in the modern NBA need help of some type to be successful, some more than others. But the fact remains, Pierce and Melo (as just two examples of many) CAN and HAVE been 1A options on very good teams. Iggy will NEVER be that. Now, that isn’t to say he’s not good or doesn’t have a role, even a large one to play on a good team, but it won’t be that.

    And before you enter into the “well who says we need that role at all?” Name me the last 2 teams to win a championship without a true offensive star leading them. The 04 Pistons will be one…and then…yeah.

    Also, you continue to dodge the whole “by most metrics Melo is better than iggy” thing. And while you are quick to point out that KG, PP and Ray were 8-16 before joining up Iggy is 16-32 in the playoffs…that SOOOO much better.

  48. Steve Toll
    30. April 2013 at 10:12

    Matt,

    That is there actual cost per minute played from 08/09 – 11/12

    List ALL the players that YOU think are worth more than Andre Iguoalathis past season

    We can proceed from there as it is the logical next step in this argument.

    I’m calling you out RIGHT NOW as a fraud, there is no chance you step up to the plate and try to list the players who were more valuable than Iggy this year

    FRAUD ALERT!!!!!

  49. Adam
    30. April 2013 at 10:22

    Bottom line:

    in the NBA you NEED to have your franchise player on the roster BEFORE you spend precious cap money on secondary stars, starters and role players… and iggy has the aspects of all 3 of those roles, but he is FAR from a franchise cornerstone, he will not keep a team up, he can not be the best player on a playoff team, not if you want to get past the 1st round.

    Mediocre teams have ZERO history of building through trades/FA to become better than mediocre…. UNLESS said team has significant trade assets, and a star already on the roster (of which the sixers had neither)

  50. Steve Toll
    30. April 2013 at 10:41

    Ransom,

    8-16 were their teams records in the playoffs per round, not per win. Sorry for not being more clear on that.

  51. Steve Toll
    30. April 2013 at 10:44

    Ransom,

    With enough good players, a team doesn’t need that role

  52. Adam
    30. April 2013 at 12:32

    Toll,

    There is no evidence in nba history to validate that

  53. ABC
    30. April 2013 at 19:44

    Steve,

    Sorry, I’m not too familiar with this stat. Could you explain what it means?

  54. Matt
    30. April 2013 at 21:25

    Steve, again you try to go by this pointless cost per minutes played. Please tell me how exactly that translates into player value. If you mention any other stats then that voids your argument bc again, it doesn’t tell you points, rebounds, assists, etc. again it only tells you cost per minute which in itself is a useless stat.

    But to answer YOUR question, since you don’t answer mine, I’ll play ball. Again, talking value here, not better since the easy cop out is of course LEBRON. But..

    Jamison
    Reggie Evans
    Martell Webster
    Barnes
    Kidd
    Ray Allen
    Jr smith

    Just a few. Response?

  55. Ransom
    1. May 2013 at 08:21

    Steve,

    I was going to 8-16 seemed light on the raw numbers for the length of careers those guys have going. That said, Iggy is 1-5 for his team in playoff rounds/series…that’s worse than 8-16, though clearly a smaller sample size.

    I saw you asking another commenter to list the players they thought were more valuable than Iggy. When you say “more valuable” are you referring to perceived value to a team on the court? Because obviously you are looking at the monetary values of them per-minute so that would be a weird trick question. Presumably you’re looking to compare their answer to a money figures? Because I’d love to play ball with the players are more useful on court…

  56. Steve Toll
    1. May 2013 at 10:51

    Matt,

    Everyone of those players is on a capped out team and would be trade any of them for Iggy in a heartbeat.

    Fraud Fraud Fraud Fraud

  57. Matt
    1. May 2013 at 12:13

    Blah blah blah Steve. That wasn’t the question at all. You said more valuable. Not better. ECG of those players is a better value. Doesn’t matter capped or not. Stop making excuses.

    TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL

    Lebron
    Rondo
    Durant
    Paul
    Curry
    George
    Noah
    Parker
    Harden
    Was

  58. Matt
    1. May 2013 at 12:22

    *wade etc

    And actually, not any team wod trade them for iggy. Iggy made 15 mil this season and over 16 mil next season. That’s the same salary as most if not all those players combined.

    And lastly, why do you keep ignoring all my previous questions and also refuse to comment on his 15 and 16+ mil salary for this year and next????

    BECAUSE STEVE TOLL IS THE FRAUD

  59. Steve Toll
    1. May 2013 at 16:14

    Matt,

    Your list shows that you think that Iggy is the 10th most valuable player in the NBA.

    You don’t think these guys
    Jamison
    Reggie Evans
    Martell Webster
    Barnes
    Kidd
    Ray Allen
    Jr smith

    All wouldn’t be snap traded for iguodala? How can you be soooooooo stupid?

  60. Steve Toll
    1. May 2013 at 16:21

    Ransom,

    Cost per minute of play from 08/09 through 11/12

    Iguodala: $4423.75
    Carmelo: $6909.93
    Pierce: $6508.01

    Total Games, Minutes Played, Total Salary
    Iguodala: 293 Games 11,167 MP $49.4 Million
    Carmelo: 267 Games 9,537 MP $65.9 Million
    Pierce: 293 Games 10,295 MP $67 Million

    Iguodala’s cost in the court was 64% of Melo and 68% of Pierce on a per minute basis.
    He played 875 more minutes than Pierce and 1630 more minutes than Melo’

    It’s not even up for debate that Iggy was more valuable than Pierce and Melo when you figure in cost and production

  61. Adam
    1. May 2013 at 22:48

    Now factor in whos the better basketball player and who can score consistently for their teams.

    Show the numbers without factoring in that iggy played more games and minutes… Cause price tag should be more about talent than minutes/games played.

  62. Ransom
    2. May 2013 at 08:10

    Steve, I’m honestly confused by this. There are likely plenty of shitty players who play enough minute to make them a better monetary deal. Hell, pay me the veterans minimum and play me 35 min a night in the NBA…I’ll be a great value…other than the fact that I can’t play basketball at the NBA level. Obviously that is an absurdity-reduced example but it applies.

    State that a player is better because he is a financial deal is detached from the idea that they also have to be, ya know, good at basketball.

    I’m not saying that Iggy is objectively bad at basketball. But, again I’ll ask you, where are these stats that make Iggy better than Melo this year? The majority of regular and advnaced stats give Melo a decided edge.

    And speaking of value. This year, Andre is making $15 mil this season. Is it safe to say that number is above league average? It is. His PER, APER, EFF, TS%, and WS, all notably BELOW league average…Interesting value proposition there…

  63. Steve Toll
    3. May 2013 at 02:56

    Adam,

    Are you honestly insinuating that games played and minutes played are not important?

    Ransom,

    The 62 highest paid players make on average $14,660,000
    Iguodala’s salary for the 2012-2013 season is $14,700,000

    There is no doubt that you can get more from Iggy’s salary if you can cherry pick players from around the NBA. That is true for every NBA player, even Lebron.

    Lebron makes 17.5 million

    These 7 guys make less than Lebron and would be more valuable than Lebron if they were all on the Heat

    Birdman 800k
    Matt Barnes 850k
    Omar Asik 5 million
    Amir Johnson 6 million
    JR Smith 2.8 million
    Ronnie Brewer 1 million
    Jodie Meeks 1.4 million

  64. Ransom
    6. May 2013 at 07:31

    Steve, I’m not saying games, minutes played and salary (or, as you’ve used a ratio of those) doesn’t matter. What I’m saying is that it is equally important WHAT they do in those minutes and for that money. I guess I’m just wondering what exactly what you’re describing when you say “value”. Like my example before: if the Sixers signed me, a 6′ white kid with middling basketball skills, for the veteran min and played me, say, 30 minutes a night…id be a pretty good “value” except I wouldn’t be good at basketball, which is kind of the goal.

    And, no sarcasm intended, how exactly are those guys you listed more value than LBJ on the Heat? Naturally, if you’re referring to literal price tag, you’re right, but it’s also irrelevant.

    And, as has been written many times before, LeBron James is actually underpaid relative to his worth…

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